to think there's a double standard on MN when it comes to contraception?

[MaryCB]

Whenever anyone posts on here about a man who's been tricked into fathering a child because his partner lied about being on the pill, people say he should have used a condom, contraception isn't only the woman's responsibility, etc.

However, if a woman posted that she dislikes condoms, but her long-term partner insists on using them because he doesn't trust that she's really on the pill, there would be a chorus of "Leave the bastard! How dare he accuse you of lying about contraception?"

If a woman posted that her long-term partner agrees to go without condoms on the condition that she lets him stand over her and watch every time she takes her pill, I guarantee she'd be told she was in an abusive relationship.

Which is it? What should men in long-term relationships do if their partner doesn't want to use a condom?

It’s always wise to use condoms if you think a baby would absolutely ruin your life and that is the case for both women and men.

there would be a chorus of "Leave the bastard! How dare he accuse you of lying about contraception?"

I, for one, would not be part of the chorus. It's a perfectly reasonable thing for a man to do. It's not necessarily about trust - it's well known that the Pill can fail due to illness, for instance - or a woman might quite genuinely forget to take it. As a woman who has never wanted children, I would understand perfectly if a man wanted visible assurance that contraception was in place.

What are you even talking about?

My goodness @MaryCB, you must feel very strongly about this very rare scenario to have joined MN just to post about it!

I've not seen the "if a woman doesn't like condoms" situation on here. There's many double standards on MN regarding relationships, but this isn't one of them.

The only thing I would say is that I do agree with the situation where a man should trust his partner to take her pill properly and reliably and to mention if there's anything that might compromise it so they can take additional precautions, but at the same time if he does trust his long term partner and she does stop taking the pill / ends up with the runs but doesn't tell him and the pill is less effective / the effectiveness is reduced and she says she'll take the morning after pill but doesn't etc then he's essentially told to suck it up because if he didn't want a child then he shouldn't have sex, with quite a convenient brushing aside of the deception from his partner.

Some men are dickheads and/or irresponsible. Some women lie and are manipulative. I don't think both of those facts are equally accepted on here at times.

But of course if he didn't want a baby he should have used condoms according to MN.

Well, yes!! It’s common bloody sense! Even if she was taking the pill properly there is a failure rate! He is responsible for his own contraception. Saying “oh she said she was taking the pill” is the biggest cop out ever.

The trouble is men do get to cop out massively and it’s mostly down to biology. The only way they can currently protect themselves from unwanted pregnancy is condoms or vasectomy. If more men pushed for alternative contraceptives they would have happened by now. They created a male pill but the men in the trial didn’t like it because of the side effects such as poor skin, mood swings, nausea and weight gain (so the same side effects women have been dealing with for 50+ years).

Let’s face it, even if an unwanted pregnancy did happen the man has the option to cut and run. Sure, he might get chased down for CM but he doesn’t even have to see the baby and even if the woman has an abortion, it’s never going to be the man experiencing the after effects.

There are double standards all over MN when it comes to men and women in general, it’s not just confined to contraception.

You are not wrong. There are absolutely double standards on here. Men are always in the wrong blah blah blah.
And yes @ghostyslovesheets men do get tricked into fatherhood. I even know one woman that put pins through the condoms. Here he would still get blamed, because he should have somehow been a mind reader that she was doing that.
To say some, and I say 'some' (of course not all) women do not trick or get pregnant on purpose is ridiculous. Yet on here people largely seem to ignore that, it's a bit like the benefit threads. Some (again some not all) do cheat the system, but on here it's largely ignored. Mumsnet is weird about some things.

I even know one woman that put pins through the condoms.

Yeah. And you know a child called La-a. We used to have the same urban myth when I was a teenager in 80s Ireland, only then it was nuns going undercover in condom factories with their pins at the ready. And about as credible.

However, if a woman posted that she dislikes condoms, but her long-term partner insists on using them because he doesn't trust that she's really on the pill, there would be a chorus of "Leave the bastard! How dare he accuse you of lying about contraception?"

I've never seen this on MN. Or even heard it in RL.

@Sleeveen She really did. We were 16/17 at the time and she wanted a baby. I had known her since we were in primary school. It is not an urban myth, it happened and she freely admitted it. Sorry to disappoint you, but it is 100% real. Her pin prick is now 23.

Sorry NC

OP have you actually seen a thread where the woman is moaning because her partner insists on wearing a condom?

Is the father involved in the child’s life Pirate?

He was for a few years @Pumperthepumper Then she got with someone else, the boy took the new partners name and they moved. Since had a few (if I say how many I'll be told it's not real) other DC with him. She's been with her current partner for over 20 years now. They're happy.

It is not an urban myth, it happened and she freely admitted it.

And you were there and witnessed the use of the pin and the sex? Or -- given the vast gap between what people say and what people do, a directionless, not very bright teenager got accidentally pregnant, and decided to front it out and make it sound like she planned it?

So he doesn’t see his kid now? That’s sad.

To me there probably is a double standard (or different standards) in the way we talk about women and contraception and men and contraception because the consequences of contraception is so much more serious for a woman than a man. It works both ways though - men who don’t see their children, or don’t support the children they ‘didn’t want’ are absolutely validated by society. There will be countless posters on here whose children’s fathers have absolutely nothing to do with them. For a woman though, distancing yourself from your own child is seen as one of the worst things you could possibly do - whether you ‘wanted’ that child or not.

So these double standards are present regardless of sex. But the woman always bears more responsibility than the man, always.

Maybe it happened. Men have also been known to make holes in condoms too.

It would be a lot harder for anyone to trick anyone into parenthood (or contracting an STI) if there was an assumption that using two forms of contraception was totally normal and responsible, wouldn't it?

@Sleeveen Don't mark her as stupid. She knew exactly what she was doing, she's very smart and always has been. Now she will say that in hindsight she would have preferred that her now DP was the bio father, but that's not how it happened. Her DP has always looked after her DS as if he was though, so it all worked out in the end.

Your insistence that people don't do that is wrong though. Some women do. To deny that is just a bit silly.

I don't know for sure @Pumperthepumper I know he's in touch with his bio aunt and they get on quite well. I know he does call her DP Dad and sees him as such.

I even know one woman that put pins through the condoms.

And I know a man that did this. To me. Another very good reason to always look after my own contraception!

^Quite. Each individual, male and female, should protect themself.

It will be a lot easier when there is a pill or injection for both sexes.

I think it’s wise to ensure both sexes know they are responsible for their own contraception and not to trust another whether dating or married. Very easy for one to want a baby and not the other and along comes an announcement of a “surprise”.

If both protecting themselves then it’s highly unlikely to result in pregnancy or STi.