In paying child support the way I am?

[OMGMyLifeIsCrazy]

My ex and I separated middle of last year. We have the kids 50/50. He hasn't worked for years while I have a well paying job (2 pt jobs doing about 45 - 50 hours per week). Our kids are teens and there's no real reason for him not to have a job.

I have been assessed to pay $7800pa child support and I'm wondering if others can tell me if I am being fair. We opted for private collection so I don't actually pay him anything directly unless to reimburse him for things spent on the kids. Annually I pay for:
School related costs $2500
Sports related costs $1000
Allowances $1664
Phone plans $350
Most bday/xmas presents $1000
Outings/Movies etc $500
Clothing $1000

Without including other small incidental costs, I'm covering a little more than my assessment but over the course of the year, I'm probably covering another couple of thousand. I also buy pet supplies and pay for vets for the family pets.

I'm making sure I keep a record of all payments just in case the private arrangement comes back to bite me in the future.

In the way that I'm doing this, am I being fair? I suspect if I paid the money via the CSA, I'd have a hard time getting 50% of costs when they come up so this way makes sense to me and he seems happy though we haven't done our property settlement yet.

Is he happy with the set up?

Generally the maintenance that is ordered to be paid is handed over to the RP to cover a share of bills - food, rent/mortgage, and other things. Anything paid over and above that is down to agreement (things like Christmas and birthday presents bought by you wouldn’t count as maintenance paid tbh)

Be very, very careful that it can’t come up and bite you that you don’t have a record showing that you paid X amount of maintenance to your ex each month/week

Surely you shouldnt be paying anything in CM for 50/50 contact arrangement? You are working a significant amount of hours so I would be considering cutting some of this and considering your own health and time with your children rather than supporting an ex who chooses not to work given such an arrangement. You're being a big of a mug here OP. Are those figures from the CSA calculator?

Family pets aren’t “family pets” if you’ve split up. Don’t pay for his pets, don’t expect him to pay for yours.

Have you had legal advice as to how much you would be paying through a csa arrangement? As I don't think you would be anywhere near what you are currently paying given its a 50/50 custody agreement...

There's actually a new(ish) thread on here after her husband of 19 years left her and their children for a 29 year old girlfriend and he only pays less than £150 a month!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3810017-19-years-lost-to-a-29-year-old

This one...

50/50 can still see a maintenance award if there is a large salary discrepancy

Instinctively I’d say yes, YABU. But in reality it depends on so much detail that’s you haven’t included that I can’t be sure of that. If you are much better off than him I would expect the maintenance to allow him to have a better residence and do more things with the DC rather than pay for things like half of the Christmas presents they get. But if you’ve had a sit down, talked about it all and these are basically half of all their expenses other than living in each home (rent/mortgage/food) and he wouldn’t do things like buy them any clothes even though he has them half the time then YmightNBU.

Where do you live OP?

The dollar signs and maintenance with 50/50 leads me to think North America where I am, because that's how we do it here and in the U.K. 50/50 generally results in a no sum payment.

It seems like your including costs that should be 50/50 in your assessment rate so for example sports costs 1000 you should pay half and your ex should. His half comes out of his income which includes your CS but your half shouldn’t be included in there. Obviously it depends on where you are and some people see the assessed amount as including alll costs (it doesn’t) IMO what your doing doesn’t seem fair.

I'm also wondering if you are in the UK.

I would understand maintenance to be paid to other parent and for them to spend it as they want, ie you couldn't order they spend it on sports.

Are the Xmas presents from you or him? You can't include them as part of maintenance. If you were a man spending the maintenance money this way you would be called controlling.

Where do the family pets live? It is the adult who owns them who should be responsible for them, and certainly not part of maintenance.

If you are in the UK who gets the child benefit?

It doesn't work that way in the UK, but it depends on where you are living. I suspect it doesn't work that way where you are either though.

In Aus the amount of CS can also impact on some benefits received as well Even if your not giving it to your ex

I'm in AU. He is in the family home that is mortgaged in my name only. I brought money into the relationship that we safeguarded early on so he is getting a pretty good deal in that my new accommodation expenses are double his as he is in the house that has a small mortgage. He pays the monthly mortgage but I pay 50% of anything else related to the property (insurance, repairs, rates etc). I live in a house that I took a mortgage out for in full in my own name after I left due to DV & Mental Health problems.

His income is 0 aside from Govt benefits. My income is above average but I'm not rich by any means. I pay for the pets because while they are family pets, I was the one who wanted them but in the end it was disruptive to move them.

The CSA calculated the annual amount and did the assessment. We did the assessment to assist with his Govt benefits entitlements. He says he doesn't want me to give him money so I make sure I pay for everything for the kids outside of his food and utilities. I suspect I would be better off giving him the cash as I know it works out higher doing it the way I do, but doubt he would then be able to pay 50/50 of expenses as he is not good with money at all.

Name changed.

Assuming you are in Australia, Child Support is your contribution towards your children’s everyday living costs for the time they are not in your care - state schooling, food, rent, gas, elec, clothing etc. It is NOT for allowances, phone plans, extra curricular activities, presents, outings etc as these are not necessities.

In a Private Collect arrangement you and the other parent can agree that payments for things are in lieu of Child Support - so your ex may agree to what you are paying - however if the receiving parent no longer agrees to this, then he can request the CSA take over collection at anytime and request up to three months arrears for payments not received. In your circumstances he would likely be awarded the three mths arrears as allowances, sport activities, money for going out, birthday presents etc is not child support.

If you ex was to call CSA they would recommend he ask you to pay the money directly to him and if you refused he could request CSA collect (and up to three months arrears) immediately. They will immediately set up salary deductions to ensure payments from you.

Based on your list, you are underpaying him $4500 a year. You’re also putting all “expenses” onto him (deducting allowances, phone plans etc from Child Support he is entitled to receive. If you both agree to these things for your children you should share the cost. You are paying it out, but reclaiming it from Child Support you should be paying in addition to this cost, which means your ex is actually paying for all these things). It’s also quit sad that you think your children’s birthday and Christmas presents should come out of money to support their everyday basic living costs.

To people asking why you pay Child Support when the children are in 50/50 care, it’s to ensure the children have a more balanced lifestyle and benefit from both parents income, regardless of which house they are living in.

I think you need to think how’d you feel if you were the receiving parent and your ex was counting allowances, phone plans and outings as child support. I’m sure you wouldn’t be happy with it, as allowances and trips to the pictures doesn’t put food on the table or pay the rent.

Oh, and in answer to the birthday/Xmas presents arrangement. As we only separated 6 months ago, we have done them joint but I've bought most of them.

No it doesn't sound unreasonable. It sounds like he contributes very little. He sounds like a cocklodger l am afraid, the irony is you no longer live in the property with him so aren't getting much benefit from it. Does that make him a cocklodgercuckoo?! If l was you then l would be wondering how to make him work and get him out of the house to be honest. Child support is the least of your problems.

We both have children from previous relationships. I never received more than the minimum child support from my first ex as he was good at hiding income. My ex never paid his ex more than a thousand here and there as he has never had consistent income.

I actually didn't think of the whole child support assessment as being half the cost in total. I may have to rethink but given that he is still living in a house that has all of my equity tied up in it (as a result his mortgage payments are half that of mine), I thought that these things would balance each other out. The family home (that he's in) is close to the school, has a big yard, a beautiful pool and more while I'm in a new estate further away with no yard or extravagances.

I'm an FDRP in Australia, if you are both happy with the arrangement but you are worried it might change in the future I would draft an agreement and have it made into Consent Orders. Lots of people work out the finances without involving the CSA. The only thing I am confused about is the fact that you say you safeguarded the money you brought into the relationship, if you are doing a financial settlement that would be counted as part of your contribution but in a long term relationship it is very difficult to "claw back" personal money.

What does he pay for?

Yeah l would be thinking about the total cost of it all and trying to disentagle youself and finances from him. If you purchased the nicer property then surely you should be living in it? What explanation does he give for not working?

I want to do the right thing by everyone but am also conscious of the fact that I have been financially taken advantage of for a really long time by both my ex-DHs. I'm believe in fairness and justice and try to do what I can to make sure everyone gets a good outcome. I was forced to leave due to DV and wouldn't have felt safe in the old house as there was often hidden surveillance in the house and I would have worried all the time. As a result, I have a huge mortgage in my new place while the other house's mortgage is about half. We will be doing a property settlement soon but I got legal advice on that and the settlement won't happen for another 3-6 months.

We were in our 30s when we met. I had a house. He had nothing. When we bought our first house together, I sold mine and put the $ into the new house. Our lawyer advised us to do a Tenants in Common arrangement with a 65/35 split in my favour. This has never been in dispute by him. He has always been on and off work. I have always been the provider. When the kids were little, whether he was working or not, I had a nanny for our kids because he was never confident with looking after them as babies/toddlers so it wasn't that he was a SAHD. He hasn't worked for the last 4 years mostly by choice. He has had several periods where he has just outright refused to get a job for a long time despite me begging him to. He hates working and I have had to work my butt off to keep us in good financial stead. That's all in the past though.

Thanks for your comments. I will rethink the current arrangements but also take into account that I'm paying a huge mortgage to give him so time to sort out his financials and finding a job.

Good idea getting some legal advice. I think re-thinking the current arragements is a good idea and making clear he needs to find a job. Rather than you subsidising him forever

You can’t just get Child Support written into Consent Orders. The reason the CSA exists is to remove Child Suppport assessments from the courts. These days court ordered Child Support is rare and used mainly where big money or substantial assets are concerned and the CSA assessment would not be an accurate reflection of the lifestyle of the child going forward.

You and the other parent can make a Child Support agreement where you sign a document agreeing the amount of Child Support payable and register it the CSA. The agreement will only be accepted if the agreed rate of Child Support is equal to or more than the CSA assessment. Where parents wish to agree to a rate of Child Support payable at less than the CSA assessed rate, they can sign and register a Binding Child Support Agreement. This allows parents to agree to pay/receive less Child Support than CSA assesses, however both parents must seek independent legal advice (two different lawyers from two different practices) before signing it and must have the lawyers complete a certificate explaining that the parent signing the agreement is aware of what they are doing and how it affects their future Child Support (certificates must be provided with the Agreement to CSA). A Binding Child Support Agreement disadvantages the receiving parent if they are entitled to receive any Famiy Tax Benefit. This is because the FTB will be calculated based on the rate of Child Support the receiving parent SHOULD be receiving under a normal CSA assessment, rather than what they are ACTUALLY receiving in Child Support. It disadvantages the child as the child receives less support than they are entitled to. A binding Child Support Agreement can be useful if it has been agreed that the receiving parent revive a bigger portion of property settlemt etc or where the receiving parent needs the lump sum upfront, rather than paid over ten years. In your ex’s case I would advise him to not accept it, especially as he is not working.

Child Support is SEPARATE to your property settlement and YOUR lifestyle choices (purchasing another home), and you cannot reduce your Child Support because of this. You would have known your Child Support obligations when deciding to purchase another property and Child Support will not be adjusted because you took on a large mortgage.

As the mortgage on the family home is solely in your name, he is not required to make mortgage payments on your behalf (though I assume he realises paying it benefits him by still having a home to live in). As he is making this payment he could apply to CSA for a Change of Assessment and ask that the Child Support Assessment be increased to factor in that he is paying a loan in your name. He could likely apply for an increase in the assessment to factor in payments to insurances, as he is paying 50% of costs but only owns a 35% share of property. Assuming he cannot afford to buy you out of the family home and you cannot afford to buy him out as you have taken on another property, you’ll have to hope your family home sells quickly and for a reasonable price.

You seem quite happy to reduce payments to your ex, but need to realise it’s payments for your children and their benefit.

I suggest you call CSA and have a chat (and check out their website), as if you reduce your payments it will come back to bite you quickly and expensively (which quite rightly it should).

I also think if this were a man posting, the responses would be the usual Mumsnet cries of “That’s the minimum required, not what children cost” and shouting the man down for trying to charge the receiving parent for things the paying parent chooses to do (allowances, mobile phone contract, trips out, presents etc).

Oh bollocks to the bullshit "if this were a man" they usually come on here via a pregnant girlfriend wanting to reduce payments

I have no advice on the Australian system but I would say cant you get your house back? And how old is teenager?