To think there isn't enough information given to parents on car seat safety?

[TokenGinger]

Since I became a first time mum, I've been really surprised at how little information is given to parents on car seat safety. I only stumbled upon a page for Extended Rear Facing after I saw a friend had commented on a post and I've since been researching it in detail.

I'm not sure who I expect to give this information to parents because health professionals are already stretched to capacity, but I just feel it's so important and is something that so many parents I've spoken to are unaware of.

Extended Rear Facing up to 25kg is recommended because a child's spine, neck and pelvis are not mature enough to withstand the impact of a forward facing crash without a much higher risk of serious injury.

I see so many friends post pictures of their children bundled into car seats ready for their journey forward facing and they're still so small and could quite easily still be RF, or even in their infant carrier, but I don't blame them because I'm sure they're just unaware of how much safer it is to rear face.

AIBU to think that this is vital information parents are missing out on being told, and wouldn't necessarily know to research when current advice is that babies only near to rear face until 9kg?

@99problemsandthecatis1 - that might explain in. Both of mine are very long in the body and shorter in the legs. It's really difficult because I struggled to keep DD1 in a 3 point harness seat as long as she should have been but keep her in it because it was so much safer for her pelvis...

OP, we live in a country where fathers often get the big people carrier type car and women get the little run-around car. Can you name a 25kg seat that would fit into the back of a Fiat 500? How about a Fiat Panda? How about with a 6ft + front seat passenger? People get the best they can afford based on their lifestyle, vehicle and what they can afford. We all know you're not meant to buy 2nd hand seats but many do, because they couldn't afford the seats otherwise. Some people can afford to buy ERF seats, and cars that fit them, others can't. Can you really not understand that? That's not about "guidance", it's about finance and family priorities.

25kg seats aren't new - they have been around for decades in Scandanavia. They only seem new in the UK because the internet has made it easier to source and import them, and as a result some manufacturers have begun to sell them direct to UK customers. The Two Way Elite for example is over 20 years old.

Here is a useful article about ERF in small cars, with tall drivers:
erfmission.com/you-cant-rear-face-in-small-cars-debunking-myths-4/

I do not think everyone should or must ERF and if you don't want to, don't feel guilty about it. It's absolutely not what makes someone a good parent or not, crazy to make that decision about any single issue (abuse aside - and a forward facing car seat is laughably far from abuse, even for a 9 month old). I think it's very unlikely we will ERF to 25kg personally, and I have a child on a higher centile that some experts insist "must" need a 25kg seat in time. But I don't think it's helpful to go around claiming things are impossible when they aren't.

8 years ago, it really was a different story - there has been SO much change on this over the last 4-5 years, it's actually unrecognisable. Joie started in 2014, I think, and have made a massive difference in the industry.

I agree bertie Ds is 10 now (and still in a HBB) and when he was a baby people where amazed he was still rear facing at 18 months, at that time it seemed to be almost a race to move them to forward facing as if it was some sort of big milestone

StepAway There are ERF seats which go up to 25kg or about 125cm or child which is 5-7 years depending on their size. These are generally not stocked by the normal chains, because they are the wrong combination of expensive and unpopular, but are available from specialists. There was apparently someone on the staff at Mothercare who managed to get them to stock a couple of 25kg models but they would only have them as online only/special order in-store because of the fitting. If someone ordered one they would arrange for a Britax trainer to come and train the staff member with the seat ordered for the customer.

So yes it is possible to get a 115cm 4yo in a rear facing seat :) Which doesn't necessarily mean that you should, but you can if you want to.

The interesting trend to me is the new one for seats which harness up to 25kg/125cm forward facing - very useful for DC who are too tall for standard (18kg/105cm) harnesses but the parents are anxious about moving to the adult seatbelt in a booster. Interestingly these seats DO tend to be available in ordinary high street shops - you can get the Joie Bold from Halfords.

I do not personally get the desire to harness and keep DC in a bulky seat for umpteen years, I also frequently disagree with other car seat enthusiasts because I don't see any evidence against HBB use from around 3, but I do think it's great that these options are available. What drives me nuts is when people are told oh no, you can't do that, the seat doesn't exist. We have so so so many amazing car seat options now. You can do pretty much anything you want. There are very few car seat dilemmas it is now impossible to solve. (A car seat covering the tricky age around 2 which is truly portable, very safe AND affordable is still not quite there yet, though.)

Yep, Sirzy, I remember (in about 2009) a friend saying they had had to move their 16mo DD into her forward facing seat even though she wasn't quite 9kg yet "because it's just ridiculous!" - funny how perspectives change as a lot of people would find 16mo very young to move forwards now, partly because of the minimum 15 months recommendation/law if using an i-size seat, partly because of combination seats which allow people to postpone the decision of when to forward face. And that's a great thing. I actually think the seats which go both ways are probably making a big difference. And while some people would prefer that only rear facing seats were available, I think if parents had to choose between only rear facing or only forward facing, most would choose forward, because rear is unfamiliar and they have worries such as "What if they feel travel sick/want more space for their legs?" By buying one which can do either you can keep them rear facing for as long as you and they feel comfortable, and for me that's a huge win! Every month rear facing after the baby seat is an improvement in safety and statistically the biggest difference is up to around a year. If they like it and never complain - up to 4 years (ish) is possible. If they start to dislike it - no need to buy a whole new seat. We actually bought a spin one because we sometimes do very long drives of around 10 hours in total (not including stops) and so far not yet, because DS2 is only around 17 months but in the future it's another tool in the box for if he starts to get really fed up in the car - a change of direction. If he falls asleep, back to rear facing because it's safer and the recline is better. But you have to do what you have to do.

SoCrimeaRiver I've had our 25kg seat in a Honda jazz, Suzuki alto and fiat panda as well as other small cars. It's takes up much, much less room than our Joie 18kg seat.

Also, for a forward facing seat there should be a minimum distance of 55cm from seat crease to the passenger seat in front. If there isn't, the child risks getting smacked against the drive or front passenger chair.

@SoCrimeaRiver

Can you really not understand that?

Why is your question aimed at me as the OP? I have once questioned why parents don't ERF. My question is do you think there should be more information on car seat safety, because I was completely unaware before I stumbled upon it via a post on social media.

I'm not saying people have to or should rear face. I asked if there should be more guidance, but the general consensus is that there's always adequate information readily available which I accept.

I'm not really sure where your post aimed at me came from.

In answer to your question, the Axkid Minikid fits in a Fiat 500 and Fiat Panda.

@BertieBotts Everything you've said on this thread is absolutely spot on and so helpful.

I echo what you say in that these seats are available for all kinds of cars and sizes of children, but that doesn't mean parents must use them.

My initial reason for posting this thread was because I only stumbled upon the information through a social media post, however, I accept I'm in the majority and I'm happy that the messages around car seat safety are much wider spread than I had known, which gives parents the information they need to make an informed decision about what's right for them and their children, whatever that may be.

With regards to small cars not having enough space for rear facing cars, people seem completely oblivious to the fact that in forward facing seats, the child's head should be at least 55cm from the back of the front seat. An ERF could leave more room for the front passenger if this rule was followed in some small cars!

My two rear face and although it's our second car, we can fit DD 4.5yrs and DS 3yrs (but massive!) rear facing in an Axkid Minikid and a Britax two way elite with me 5'8" and DH 6'2" in the front.

Rear facing seats, obviously! Although rear facing cars is an interesting concept...

People always say that though, but I'm yet to hear of a rear facing seat that takes up less than 55cm. It's not measured from the child's head but from the seat bight/crease.

The 55cm rule is important but I'm not sure it proves the point that ERF takes up less space. The most compact seats still take up around 70cm in cabin space which is measured about the same way.

I agree to some extent that it’s not well known about as I have quite a few people shocked my two year old is rear facing. However I have just turned his seat round at two and half. I bought a rear facing seat that said it should last until 4 when he was 9 months. He is now almost out grown it and is so squashed rear facing he hates getting in his seat and also gets terribly travel sick . My seat also feels so much more secure in the forward facing position. While I would feel more relaxed with him rear facing I can’t afford a seat big enough now and it doesn’t really work for him so it’s time to turn him for us

Yes sorry you're right! From the head always makes more sense in my head!

My DD has been in a HBB in our fiesta a couple of times and I was shocked at how close to the front seat she was. I really didn't feel she was far enough back.

@BertieBotts - thank you!

Interestingly some Britax manuals for forward facing seats hint at the 55cm rule by saying that the front seat must be far enough forwards to be clear of the child's legs when fully extended, and explains this is to do with reducing the risk of them hitting their head in a crash. I thought that was quite helpful as a rule of thumb, much better than 55cm when most people won't have a tape measure handy when fitting their child seat or wanting to move the front seat forward or back. I've just measured my 1.5yo (he is asleep!) from hip to heel and that is about 40cm. So with a car seat behind him and shoes on, I'd be confident that was at least 50+cm and of course as he grows it will be even longer. I think I'm going to adopt that as advice rather than quoting a figure of 55cm which most people will find rather meaningless.

Once they are in a HBB their legs will probably be longer than 55cm though, so only really useful for Group 1 seats.