To think there isn't enough information given to parents on car seat safety?

[TokenGinger]

Since I became a first time mum, I've been really surprised at how little information is given to parents on car seat safety. I only stumbled upon a page for Extended Rear Facing after I saw a friend had commented on a post and I've since been researching it in detail.

I'm not sure who I expect to give this information to parents because health professionals are already stretched to capacity, but I just feel it's so important and is something that so many parents I've spoken to are unaware of.

Extended Rear Facing up to 25kg is recommended because a child's spine, neck and pelvis are not mature enough to withstand the impact of a forward facing crash without a much higher risk of serious injury.

I see so many friends post pictures of their children bundled into car seats ready for their journey forward facing and they're still so small and could quite easily still be RF, or even in their infant carrier, but I don't blame them because I'm sure they're just unaware of how much safer it is to rear face.

AIBU to think that this is vital information parents are missing out on being told, and wouldn't necessarily know to research when current advice is that babies only near to rear face until 9kg?

I have a 2 year old and seem to get the benefits of ERF rammed in my face every time I go online. Mine is still rear facing but some of my friends children of the same age now aren’t - I’m sure they’ve been privy to the same information but have chosen to make a different choice to me.

When I explained about RF, she wasn't interested

I put him in the car seat again and shown her how slack it now was

You sound like a preachy nightmare.

When I explained about RF, she wasn't interested

I put him in the car seat again and shown her how slack it now was

Id say she was a bit pissed off at you

You sound like a preachy nightmare.

To point out something dangerous?

I don't understand why people bother with car seats at all if they're not going to fit them properly or take them seriously. It's like people who wear their seat belt but pull it down over their shoulder so it doesn't dig in. It's not safe now, so what's the point in the token gesture of doing it?!

I think there could be a lot more information early on from health visitors and when people are picking the next stage seat. I’ve rear faced and will do until at least 4 but made an expensive error buying 18kg seats that my tall 3 year old outgrew early instead of a 25kg seat. I might have still made the same choice again as I preferred my 18kg seat but it would have been a more informed one knowing what I do now.

I’m not preachy about it though unlike some people and understand why forward facing might be better for very sick children.I asked a question on one of the forums about options for my 3 year old and was made to feel like a neglectful parent for considering a HBB (which I now understand is not ideal until 4 plus) when I had already rear faced longer than most. I think it is the preaching that can really put people off but the information on some of the Facebook boards is very helpful. I also had no idea how bad some of the cheaper seats can be.

I’m not saying the other parent was right but there’s a certain way you approach these things with friends without making them feel like a shit parent. Otherwise indeed, they just won’t be interested in what you have to say. OP has a very ‘I love my kids more than you love yours’ about her.

I wasn't preaching. I said to her you shouldn't use those coats in car seats and she asked why, and I said the straps have to be loosened to allow for it. She said she didn't understand what I was saying, so I said let me show you.

She said she only drives 5 minutes locally to do the school pick up so she wasn't worried, risk of a crash is low.

Only on mumsnet would you be called a nightmare for showing a friend, from a place of love, that what they were doing is unsafe because you care about their child 🤣🤣🤣🤣

I wonder if front seat (rear facing) is safer than rear seat (forward facing). Curious if there are comparable figures.

I'd be interested to know this, too. The group I follow has a link to a study that shows RF in the front seat is just as side as RF in the back on either passenger or driver side, but not as safe as middle seat in the back (lower risk of side impact in crash), so I'd assume RF in the front is therefore safer than FF in the back, but that's only an assumption. It would be interesting to know.

Those statistics are meaningless without the context of how common the accidents are which they apply to.

Serious RTAs are basically relatively rare in the UK. There are probably other equally serious risks people are taking with babies that also aren't highlighted enough.

I've just posted the figures and it's 40% risk of serious injury when FF and 8% risk of seriously injury when RF. I don't see a 32% reduction as a small reduction in risk

But that's not why I'm meaning about risk. First there's the risk of being in ANY sort of road accident. Then a smaller risk of being involved in an accident bad enough for injury - most accidents are minor shunts. Then the even smaller chance of being in an accident serious enough to need hospital treatment and so on.

Parents mitigate against risk. Car seats are a sensible move. But the additional benefit of a rear facing seat when weighed against the additional expense, the inconvenience and all the rest of it leads people to think it's not worth it.

@GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat OP has a very ‘I love my kids more than you love yours’ about her.

How have you come to that conclusion? My question on here was, should there be more information out there for parents to make informed decisions. I'm thankful a friend signposted me to information on ERF before I bought my next seat but many already buy their next seats without knowing that information, which is what sparked my question.

I've said in my responses on here that I totally understand that parents will do what is best for them/their children and that I'm not here to push a message or preach about ERF. I've spoken with friends about ERF because I care about their children and she's asked what I've meant when I've said ERF, but in terms of other people's children, it doesn't affect me in the slightest what they choose to do, so I wouldn't ever judge them for it. The very fact they're using a car seat in the first place shows that their child's safety is important to them, and I don't doubt for a minute that each and every parent on this forum loves their child with all that they have.

Shitty comments like yours are what's wrong with MN. I came on here to ask a question and have made every effort to think through each response to make sure I'm not knocking any other parents down, because let's face it, parenting is hard work in itself without anybody passing judgement on decisions that you make, but you felt the need to make a personal dig at me for asking a question 👏🏼

I think tbh given that they seem to think that around 50% of car seats are incorrectly fitted there is just a general push to get children into a properly fitted car seat that is suitable for their size, rather than pushing a newer concept (for here) of keeping children RF'ing for longer

I thought everyone was aware of this? I’m pretty sure all of the car seat manufacturers make customers aware of this when purchasing the car seats. Maxi cosi certainly do on the ones I’ve had from them

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland Very fair point.

@PineappleDanish Ah, I'm with you! Apologies, I misunderstood from the first post. Yes, I think you're right. I can see why some parents make that decision and agree that the risk is probably very small. When I think about it, out of every single person I know with kids, I can honestly say I've never known one to have an accident with their child in the car, so it is indeed very rare, and when the difference in price for car seats is hundreds of pounds, you can see why some choose not to do that (especially for multiple children) when the risk is small.

I also think OP your graphic is intentionally misleading. Saying "40% of serious injury" implies that 40% of children in forward facing car seats will be seriously injured. Which they won't. 40% of children who are involved in a serious crash at over 30 mph might be.

But that's a very tiny percentage of children to start with.

I also think it would be a better use of time to remind/teach parents that most accidents happen very close to home

The amount that cut corners when making short, local journeys - school run, shops, doctors - shows that people generally don't realise that

@lyralalala 50% 😱😱 That's shocking! Yeh, not much point of an extremely expensive car seat if it's not even installed correctly!

@Willow4987 That further supports my query of "have I been living under a rock" because I'd honestly never been told anything before on it, but as a previous poster mentioned, I think until you actually need that information, you maybe don't take notice of it.

On my car seat (Cosatto), it says that I must rear face until 9kg but can move it forwards facing after that, but we currently use the Isofix base which is RF only so that'll do until 13kg RF.

There’s plenty of information out there, it’s up to parents to find it, they shouldn’t have to be spoon fed. If you’re old enough to be having a child and driving a car, you’re old enough to look up some pretty basic information.

I think people just assume that if a car seat is available to buy, then it is going to have met a decent safety standard. So they decide that while there might be something better available, the choice they have made is fine. Which it is really, like most parenting decisions.

It's a bit like clinical drug commissioning.

Say the risk of widget cancer is 0.000004%. Expensive drug Widgetamol can reduce that risk by 30%.

The drug doesn't get commissioned because there is limited resource, and for the money, the actual risk reduction in real terms rather than percentage/relative, is small.

OP if you’re so concerned about safety why did you choose a Cosatto seat? When I was choosing ours a couple of years ago they weren’t well rated for safety at all.

@NailsNeedDoing Fair point, and that's exactly what I've done. I guess I was just so surprised by the figures I've read and the supposed benefits of ERF that I wondered why it's something we're left to look into ourselves when it could have great benefits, but you're right, if somebody is old enough and wise enough to have a child, they're old enough and wise enough to research things to keep them safe. Though there's no harm in others sharing information and tips if they're able to :)

coffeeforone the front passenger seat is the second safest seat in a car, closely followed by behind the driver (driver being safest). A rear facing seat is safer than a forward facing one. So yes, rear facing front passenger is safer than front facing rear seat.

OP I yanbu. People see forward facing as a right of passage, assume their kids will scream/ not like rear facing without even trying it. This is often because the child in question doesn't like the infant seat, when a more upright seat, even rear facing makes them much happier.

I have a 4yo. He and 1 of my friends are the only 4yo I know who are rear facing. That's out of about 25 4yo. All those forward facing have been since about 15 months. I cannot believe that 23 4yo are car sick or scream when rear facing. I suspect that parents simply don't believe it's safer and see it as weird. It's definitely not cost, almost all of them have seats which could be rear facing I'd they wished (mainly cybex sironas and soon 360s).

@MamaFlintstone I bought this car seat as part of a travel system before I knew, or had read, anything about car seat safety (as I say, I only found out about ERF from seeing a friend's post on a Facebook group).

My intention was to stop using the car seat element of the travel system (I bought it on offer at a cheaper price than buying the pram without the car seat), however, when I researched and it and asked advice in the group too, it transpires that whilst there are different standards for infant carriers, there is not much difference in safety measures when rear facing them and was advised to use the infant carrier for as long as possible, and then switch an approved RF seat. From what I understood, it was the Cosatto seats up to 18kg (not the infant carrier ones) that performed very poorly on the safety tests, but I'm happy to be corrected if I am wrong and would gladly take any advice if it's to the contrary of what I understand if it is a really poor seat to use. Though he will be moving out of it in the next few weeks anyway as he's almost 13kg, but if it is a poor seat, then I'd avoid using for any future DC.

@99problemsandthecatis1 Thank you. I agree it can't all be down to sickness etc., but I do wonder how many of those FF because they simply don't know the benefits of ERF? As you say, it's not cost for many.

It obviously is cost for SOME. But mainly I think it's lack of information- go in to Mothercare (rest it's soul), Halfords, John Lewis etc and they will sell parents a carseat. Usually a seat which goes up to 18kg because they don't stock the 25kg ones. They don't give parents the information on the positives of rear facing just say it can. Parents see it as weird and so forward face their kids.

I feel the same about people moving under 4s in to high backed boosters though. It's bloody dangerous but because it's legal they think it's safe!