Anti Vaxx threads shouldn't be allowed

[turnthebiglightoff]

AIBU to suggest that anti vaxxer threads should be reported and removed? This site is so important to many members, impressionable women will inevitably take someone's word as gospel if they already have concerns themselves. I suggest the deletion message signposts to speak to your local NHS teams / GP / visit the NHS website etc. I don't think MN allows MLM promotion; arguably this is of greater importance as it could affect so many (children's) health.

Does anyone disagree? I'd be really interested to hear why. *I really don't mean this as a TAAT as I believe this is a wider issue.

I think people bring up the Roald Dahl thing in specific contrast to the point people make that "when we were kids measles wasn't thought of as deadly! It was totally normal, everyone had it!" and the idea that vaccines are given for every little thing these days. It's meant to illustrate that even at a time where measles was a normal, unconcerning sort of illness, it could turn in an instant.

It also demonstrates that our ability to treat measles now is barely any better than the ability to treat measles back then and that outcomes would be the same, basically our main way of fighting measles is to prevent the infection and spread in the first place.

Imho vaccine damage should be viewed on a par with anaesthetic risk. Yes things can and do go wrong but the risk/benefit is still far outweighed by the benefits.

No one would call someone stupid/thick/ridiculous for being nervous about their small child having an anaesthetic, or for wanting to look at the actual stats of how often it goes wrong

That’s the big difference imo

And as someone who was put under a lot pressure to limit vaccines and go for single vaccines I can tell you it wasn’t the “don’t be ridiculous it’ll be fine” people that helped me. It was the one person who listened, understood and helped me find reliable, accurate info (the Internet is a fucking minefield if you want to find info about vaccines) that meant my kids are fully vaccinated despite the small risk

The fact that you’ve brought up an anti vax thread, by your own words, should be banned.

YY Lyra

I agree OP. Some people need protected from their own utter stupidity.

And I don’t think it’s shutting down free speech. When nonmedically-trained idiots start spouting their false facts and that leads to increasing death rates (just look at what’s happening in Samoa) then they should not be allowed a platform on an influential website.

It is completely different to say a political debate where it is always tempting to want to shut down the other side’s argument, but it is important all arguments are heard.

There are holocaust deniers. Any thread started by a holocaust denier should (and I’m pretty sure would) be shutdown on MN. That is not shutting down free speech - it’s shutting down non-truth. The same needs to be applied to anti-vaxxers and their non truths.

(Note I am not trying to compare holocaust and measles. I am only trying to show an example of how i believe it is ok to shut conversations and that doesn’t mean denying free speech)

"I've just counted and there are 6 people with direct experience (a child, themselves or close family member) of vaccine reaction.That is hardly "quite a lot of people"
I said quite a lot of people on mumsnet and on this thread. Not just on this thread. But actually even 6 to appear on a random thread is a bit weird when the numbers are rare. I dont think it's a conspiracy, bit weird to say that, I just wondered if some people might be quoting vaccine damage when it was actually vaccine reaction?

It’s not remotely weird that 6 people, on a forum of thousands, posted on a clearly titled thread

Let me guess.... eurosceptics and Trump supporters should be denied access to 'platforms' because they're objectively wrong.

Absolutely not, unless what they are preaching is factually wrong and meant to deliberately misinform and mislead.

Yes...MN is effectively a broadcaster so it does have a greater responsibility where free speech conflicts with good public service. Subjects like anti vaxing, suicide promotion, hate etc should be either removed or heavily monitored. Unmonitored spewing of the many wingnuts in hiding isn't free speech its assisted anarchy, and we see where thats already leading us.

Most of the posters did say reaction, I think only one or two used the term vaccine damage.

Six isn't a large number given the amount of active users of mumsnet.

vaccines are dangerous do not let ur kids have them

As a principle yes, within clearly defined limits. If we were to take down all lies then we would never hear anything from politicians and quite a few companies.

Freedom of speech is NOT freedom of misinformation or platform. No one has a right to spread falsehood, conspiracy or lies.

I'm afraid they do but we have libel, defamation and slander laws to discourage people from expressing themselves in a way that may be detrimental to others. Opinions you don't agree with are not to your detriment no matter how offensive you find them.

Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of liberal democracy, I would hate to lose it because some people think they have a right not to be offended or exposed to ideas and opinions they disagree with.

@PavlovaTescobar

I wish the pro vaxxers wouldn't be so rude about those who choose not to vaccinate for valid medical reasons and stop ignoring the blindingly obvious fact that some children ARE damaged by vaccines. One of my daughters was very ill after her second MMR and I was told by my GP that there was no way she should have the third part of the vaccine. A neighbour's relative tragically became physically and mentally handicapped after the whooping cough vaccine. The thought of banning discussion about parents' genuine concerns about vaccination is ridiculous.

^^ this.

There are two people in my family who have been advised not to have further vaccines because of adverse reactions, me and my nephew. I am very pro vaccine but people who don’t think there is a problem with vaccine reaction and with vaccine damage are idiots and this is heightened with a new vaccine where there is obviously no idea of long term side affects. Not being allowed to discuss this is just laughable.

I would suggest a MNHQ post at the top of every page saying that studies show vaxcines to be safe, brief explanation of herd immunity and some useful links. But let the threads stand so that and comments can be countered.

Shall we also ban threads asking for cake recipes because obesity is dangerous and fat people might go and bake a cake thinking it will be lovely?

You have lost your mind. Do you realise what kind of World these kind of things would lead us towards? All in your quest to be right!?

I wish the pro vaxxers wouldn't be so rude about those who choose not to vaccinate for valid medical reasons

I don't see that happening much

and stop ignoring the blindingly obvious fact that some children ARE damaged by vaccines

By and large they don't. But they do point out that it is vastly more rare, and generally less severe than the damage from the disease

One of my daughters was very ill after her second MMR and I was told by my GP that there was no way she should have the third part of the vaccine

?? There is no third part to MMR

A neighbour's relative tragically became physically and mentally handicapped after the whooping cough vaccine

Was this in the 70s? And if later, before or after the roll out of the acellular version?

The thought of banning discussion about parents' genuine concerns about vaccination is ridiculous

Agree

Yes banned, it’s too important.