Anti Vaxx threads shouldn't be allowed

[turnthebiglightoff]

AIBU to suggest that anti vaxxer threads should be reported and removed? This site is so important to many members, impressionable women will inevitably take someone's word as gospel if they already have concerns themselves. I suggest the deletion message signposts to speak to your local NHS teams / GP / visit the NHS website etc. I don't think MN allows MLM promotion; arguably this is of greater importance as it could affect so many (children's) health.

Does anyone disagree? I'd be really interested to hear why. *I really don't mean this as a TAAT as I believe this is a wider issue.

But a normal, healthy child is very very unlikely to die of measles. Very unlikely indeed.

I do understand what you’re saying sir but I’m still not sure I agree.

If someone held a coin and let me take my chances, measles or autism, yes, I’d probably go with measles.

I’m sorry if that’s offensive. I don’t mean it to be, but it comes from my heart.

It’s a difficult one. Instinctively, I’m for free speech. But free speech is actually restricted here to avoid offending people. Are we saying that misgendering or use of the term “cis” are worse than small children suffering permanent harm from preventable diseases? People look at this site for advice, and a “balanced” view is what’s kept this poisonous claptrap in circulation for so long.

www.nhs.uk/news/medication/antibiotic-use-in-farm-animals-threatens-human-health/

OP would you ban threads condoning meat-eating?
If not why?

The problem with measles is that it is the most infectious disease known to humankind, so infectious that since the vaccine was introduced into the UK schedule in 1968 it has prevented approximately 20 million cases.

It can cause serious complications even in healthy children such as deafness, chronic lung damage, permanent optical damage, liver damage, and damage to the heart and nervous system. In serious cases it can cause meningitis and encephalitis resulting in brain damage or death. Contracting measles wipes out your immune system so that it "forgets" previously encountered pathogens leaving you vulnerable to a whole host of illnesses all of which carry their own risks and complications, this effect lasts for years after the original measles infection. Another effect that can occur years after a measles infection is subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) which a progressive, disabling, and deadly brain disorder.

There is no cure or specific treatment for measles, even now the most that can be done is to manage symptoms and healthy children are at just as much risk from complications. Roald Dahl lost his previously healthy daughter to measles.

So while a healthy child may not die from measles, their long term health may still be utterly fucked.

Roald Dahl lost his daughter to measles in 1962.
1962 is a very long time ago , and technology and medical knowledge today are both miles ahead.
No ones doubting the severity of measles , but I find it so strange on these threads that someone always refers to Roald Dahl’s daughter.
1962 was absolutely ages ago. Tragic but very much in the past.
Measles can affect long term health, as can vaccines.

Also the thinking on these threads is very black or white. Autism or measles.
Death from measles or vaccine.
Crazy loony treehugger Brighton dwelling jobless spiritual non Vaxxer OR statistic yielding middle class upstanding member of society vaccine evangelist.
It isn’t the case that all people who decide not to vaccinate hang around on forums selling cbd oil derivatives and crystals, singing the virtues of yoga and raw food.
There are regular people out there, who’ve taken their children to a routine appointment to receive their jabs , and watched a disastrous set of consequences unfold. And you want us to be shunned from society OP. Pretend it never happened?

@Thetellyisjelly 1962 may be ages ago in terms of our lifetime. It's a blink of an eye to these viruses. And kids and adults still suffer all those side effects and die from measles. The medical knowledge we have is to vaccinate against it. Otherwise, it's symptom management while it runs its course.

Yes, vaccines can cause damage. But at nothing like the same statistical rate that measles does.

People that say there child’s been vaccine injured..how do you know it was the vaccine that caused the illness injury? How do you know it’s not just a coincidence ? I know the gov does a pay out scheme, but how can anyone prove it?

As marvellous as modern medicine is, we still don't have a cure for encephalitis (or SSPE or the immune system stripping that occurs). The best that can be done for encephalitis is to treat the underlying cause if it is treatable, symptom management and support measures. We can use antivirals, antibiotics, and steroids to help boost the body but many people who develop encephalitis will never fully recover and will be permanently damaged by it. Despite improvements in medical technology, encephalitis still has a high mortality rate of up to 30% with correct medical intervention delivered in the early stages and up to 80% without intervention or intervention delivered too late.

@sh13 you probably can’t prove it .
And generally doctors will generally use that tactic and say it’s just coincidence. Which it may or may not be. Another reason why it’s important for people to be able to connect with others who’ve encountered similar side effects.

@Hoik correct me if I’m wrong..
isn’t it possible for measles encephalitis to also occur as a side effect of the MMR vaccine?

isn’t it possible for measles encephalitis to also occur as a side effect of the MMR vaccine?

There are no known cases of SSPE (the cruellest measles related encephalitis) from the (attenuated) vaccine strain

1-3 in 1000 children who contract measles will get encephalitis. 10-15% of them will die. 25% will be left with permanent neurological damage.

1 in 1000 will develop post-infection encephalitis.

1 in 25,000 will develop the fatal condition SSPE (unless they are under the age in one, in which case the risk is 1 in 5,500).

1-2 in 1,000,000 children will develop encephalitis as a result of the MMR vaccine, less than all of the other risk groups combined.

Figures are from the Encephalitis Society website.

"1962 was absolutely ages ago. Tragic but very much in the past."

Yes, it was the last few years before you could vaccinate against measles.

And I hope that the scourge of measles does not return, so people do not have to live with the deaths of their DC. It was unavoidable then.

Far fewer DC are damaged by vaccine than will be impaired if measles goes back into circulation.

@Thetellyisjelly

But people go ott and try and brainwash others I have a friend who tried to push her views onto me she was anti vax and we fell out. The risk of vaccine damage is so minor compared to deaths from all these diseases, even things like antibiotics have serious side effects. It really annoys me others are putting my baby at risk

Anti vaxxers are crazy imo. But suggesting we ban conversations we dont agree with? Worse imo.

Yabu and i am very pro vaccination.

It has to be said that not all people that don’t vaccinate are ‘anti vaxxers’.

Dont be so ridiculous. You cannot police what people think and want to talk about. Why are YOU the person who gets to dictate what people can discuss and what they cant? You might not agree with a topic but people have a right to discuss it on a public forum. Thats kind of the entire point of free speech and what separates us from countries who trample over their citizens human rights.

People who cannot vaccinate for medical reasons or on credible medical advice are not anti-vaxxers. People who ask questions about vaccines are not anti-vaxxers and the science around vaccines is available to help answer those questions.

Anti-vaxxers are those people who fuel the needless controversy surrounding vaccines, who show unfounded doubt, who push the agenda that we are poisoning our children rather than protecting them, and who present a very real threat to public health.

The people in the first paragraph should absolutely be allowed to have their posts stand.

The people in the second should have their deleted as the disinformation they spread is dangerous.

Threads like these always highlight how hugely misunderstood the concept of freedom of speech is.

Freedom of speech is NOT freedom of misinformation or platform. No one has a right to spread falsehood, conspiracy or lies.

I strongly believe that one of the reasons the world is slowly devolving into a right wing shithole is because the media, and especially social media, has been giving equal voice to people who are spreading lies and misinformation, when they shouldn't.

Crackpot conspiracy theorists like antivaxxers should not be given the same platforms as legitimate scientists and doctors. They should not be sought out as an "alternative voice" because their voice has no merit and no facts to back them.

Personally OP I'm with you. At the very least MN should chime in with a warning that the views expressed promoting anti-vaxx theories are not legitimate and that concerned users should seek legitimate sources, such as actual doctors, before choosing not to vaccinate.

Still no comment from OP about the vaccine injured people? Hmm.

@Luckystar777 no reply as the thread was getting monotonous. And this thread is about people who refuse to vaccinate their children because they believe vaccines cause autism and the like. Which they don't.