To think there will be more cases like this one? Errol Graham, starved to death.

[BillHadersNewWife]

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-51283186

Mr. Graham had his benefits stopped and despite having genuine problems was left alone to starve.

www.disabilitynewsservice.com/the-death-of-errol-graham-man-starved-to-death-after-dwp-wrongly-stopped-his-benefits/?fbclid=IwAR2eRG_-He70F0dQ9tlHzysRvoLijGdROWhM94pn58cmDPclIxTJgVwEwwg

It's absolutely sickening and worrying.

I doubt if DWP employees are allowed to break into people’s houses. I think there would be uproar if they did

No but the can contact the police who can if there is a person at risk.

Lolz [stonefaced]

Luckily or unluckily nobody can 'get their relative sectioned' in this country. God knows I wanted my husband admitted but he killed himself instead.

If the system throws out huge numbers of people given a short yearly assessment paid for under a block contract, requiring the taxpayer to pick up a hugely increased and more expensive appeals workload not covered under the assessment contract, it's a shit system full of perverse incentives and a direct cause of increased ill health.

“This isn't a benefits system problem, it's a vulnerable adult support problem.” Of which benefits is a KEY part! Not just because of the money needed to support a person but because being on certain benefits enables/links access to other support.

I think people like yourself and others who don’t know what it’s like to be a vulnerable adult under the current govt are generally unaware of all the links and how one link being broken can result in a chain of of failures to support such adults.

I’m extremely unwell mentally at the moment, housebound 2 years, eat once a day, barely sleep, the only person I see regularly is the online delivery guy, dd is working full time shifts and is struggling to manage that with her own disability, my mum can’t physically get to my flat, haven’t lived in this area long so no real local “friends” just acquaintances and quite honestly I’d be embarrassed to ask them around as my personal care and housekeeping aren’t great at the moment.

My relationship with my parents is deeply complicated due to an abusive, chaotic childhood and I hate the idea of holding dd back from living a normal life because of my shit! And the situation with my parents is not uncommon with people with mental illness, many of us are mentally ill largely BECAUSE of our families!

So I avoid calls, messages most communication in fact. Just hearing the letterbox go can cause me to have a panic attack.

I’ve had no support from mh services since April.

All you saying the family should have done more - do you realise how hard this is to set up? You can’t just take over someone else’s affairs without their consent! And being mentally ill doesn’t necessarily mean there’s an inability to block that consent. But it’s also been made harder for families to do this

I believe in England and Wales that legal aid for such matters has largely been removed (I’m in Scotland where it’s still in place but I have friends in similar situations south of the border who’ve encountered difficulties due to this).

Dwp etc won’t discuss a persons case with family members unless there’s permission given.

I get gdpr etc is necessary but there needs to be contingencies for the care of vulnerable folk.

I can well imagine he did a good job of hiding the problems he was having from his family.

@Samcro - my advice is to NOT. Get help to do it from a reputable agency. I always use my local welfare rights office having learned the hard way not to ATTEMPT completing the forms myself! There’s a very specific language they’re looking for.

@TigerOnATrain your personal attacks on Helena are unpleasant to read, please stop. Hear hear!

“So he didn,t go for Pip assessments. ( or request a home one) So of course he wouldn,t get the benefit. He didn,t go to his GP, It sounds like he didn,t make use of the help that was there.” No he COULDN’T make use of the help that was there because he was ILL!

ONLY with mental illness are the sufferers expected to treat, cure and support themselves as a matter of WILL. As though we can WILL ourselves into being well enough to cope with the HUGE stress things like dealing with the dwp can cause. Ridiculous!

Such things can make us more ill.

“England. England wanted a Tory government. And inflicted it on the rest of us.” Absolutely

“I said it before and didn’t get an answer...what is it exactly people expect the DWP to do when even the family and friends of this man couldn’t get him to engage, accept help, see his GP or access any support?” How about NOT stopping his money for no good reason?! How about still paying him until they ascertained for definite what his situation was RATHER than stopping it ASSUMING he was no longer in need of it/eligible for it why no proof?

Personally I think the raising of the bar for sectioning is financially motivated too!

Remember who brought in “care in the community”? Thatcher! Like hell was it brought in to actually benefit the mentally ill!

“If someone has mental health difficulties such that they are unable to engage with the benefits system,they are obviously not able to work.So,equally obviously,continue to be entitled to benefits.” Exactly!

“Think the issue that keeps getting missed though is that it requires the DWP to know that someone is vulnerable and needs help. If that person won’t engage with anyone, how on earth are they expected to know that?” Because it will have been part of the information given to them when the person first claimed and with certain conditions they should be reasonably expected to understand that’s highly unlikely to have changed, in addition they have the right and ability to check with the claimants gp and check their bank accounts! That will also show what’s happening in the claimants life!

@ated I agree vile and wilfully ignorant posts. It’s NOT a case of UNWILLING to engage/access support but UNABLE to.

Mental illness frequently affects cognitive function as well as making people fearful of dealing with the likes of dwp.

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stoneofdestiny - you are very quick to say what they shouldn't do i.e cut benefits, use sanctions but I have yet to see anyone say what they would do other than lower the bar for sectioning or in your case get the police to break into their house! So once the police have broken in and ascertained this person is mentally unwell but does not wish to engage with services, what is the next part of your masterplan?

Graphista - you said "How about still paying him until they ascertained for definite what his situation was RATHER than stopping it ASSUMING he was no longer in need of it/eligible for it why no proof?" Please let me know how we should to ascertain the facts regarding someone who has withdrawn from contact with friends, family and services and is unwilling to engage with any of the above?

I stated TWO ways a persons circumstances can be ascertained that already exist. How many do you want?

But both of those rely on information from 5 years previously. However hard it is to hear, checks have to be done and information updated.

Graphista - actually you haven't, you have merely said they shouldnt' stop the payments. Please explain what steps you think they could take to engage this individual.

No both of those are avenues of data that they can access now/contemporaneously because people on benefits have to agree to such data being available at any time.

The resources and skills used to assess if fraud is occurring can ALSO be used BEFORE cutting someone off, to assess if a person is eligible. The fact it isn't being currently is due to a lack of political will NOT because it's not possible

@lemonsandlimes123

Quoting myself

"they have the right and ability to check with the claimants gp"

"and check their bank accounts!"

They can also check their social media, contact their landlord, they can even sit outside their homes and "observe" them coming and going and what if any visitors they have.

Everyone seems very quick to blame the Tories and their DWP benefit cuts/sanctions. Nottingham City Council has been Labour run since 1991. It is the Council who are responsible for adult social care. It is the Council who sent bailiffs round to evict him from his council house for non payment of rent. Possibly social services failed to inform the DWP that this was a special case of a vulnerable adult. There is blame to be shared by so many - and the only common denominator appears to be that everyone to blame is British.

But what will checking with the GP achieve in this case? He hadn’t seen or engaged with his GP for years.

Its awful, this probably isnt the first and it wont be the last.

However...I read an article where his family were complaining about it (and rightly so), but where were his family when he was starving to death?

graphista

Quoting myself

"they have the right and ability to check with the claimants gp"

That would be the GP they hadn't engaged with for years. So completely pointless.

"and check their bank accounts!"

And what information about a complex mental health condition are you thinking they should be trawling for in these bank records?

They can also check their social media, contact their landlord, they can even sit outside their homes and "observe" them coming and going and what if any visitors they have.

So what exactly will they ascertain from the social media and landlord of a person who has withdrawn from their friends family and services?

Stone of Destiny - you are very quick to say what they shouldn't do i.e cut benefits, use sanctions but I have yet to see anyone say what they would do other than lower the bar for sectioning or in your case get the police to break into their house! So once the police have broken in and ascertained this person is mentally unwell but does not wish to engage with services, what is the next part of your masterplan?

Once the police have ascertained the gravity of the situation (and I assume if the person was close to starvation, a medical team would be summoned to provide assistance and admission to hospital. I doubt a half starved person could put up much resistance to that! The sanction should be lifted to enable the person to buy food on their release.

The solution to this situation should never have been to cut off his food supply.

When Scrooge was told the poor would rather die than go to the dreaded Workhouses his response was;

"If they would rather die, they had better do it and decrease the surplus population"

Not much changed in some attitudes posted on here!

You haven’t actually answered the question, stoneofdestiny, but rather skirted round it. If the police had broken into the flat to ascertain his circumstances before his benefits were cut, they would not have found him close to starvation so no medical team would have been summoned and he would not have been admitted to hospital. They would have found him in, so would know he still existed and lived at the address. So perhaps that would have been a start for enforcing engagement but that is all.

I’m not sure what the bar is for getting the police to force someone’s door for not turning up for an appointment with the DWP, though.

I think you can feel compassion for this poor man while accepting there is no easy answer to solving the problem of someone who has not engaged with any agencies that could have helped.

You haven’t actually answered the question, stoneofdestiny, but rather skirted round it

I think you will see I gave an answer, a very specific one.

The police would have found a human being in a great deal of need whose circumstances would not have been improved by cutting off their food supply!

When his body was found by bailiffs, at his flat for falling into rent arrears, Errol Graham weighed just four and a half stone. Suffering with severe social anxiety, he had not spoken to his family for some time and had no money for food. All Errol, 57, had in the cupboards of his home in Radford, Nottingham, were a couple of out-of-date tins of fish. Errol’s cause of death was found to be starvation after his benefits were cut in October 2017 when he failed to attend a fit-for-work test. His body was found eight months later on June 20, 2018, when the debt collectors turned up to evict him. Assistant coroner Dr Elizabeth Didcock said the ‘safety net that should surround vulnerable people like Errol in our society had holes within it’

Just in case we forget the human being at the centre of this tragedy.

The charity UNICEF estimates that 2.5m British children, or 19%, now live in food insecure households. This means that there are times when their family doesn't have enough money to acquire enough food, or they cannot buy the full variety of foods needed for a healthy diet.30 Apr 2019

As of 2017, 20% of UK people live in poverty including 8 million working-age adults, 4 million children and 1.9 million pensioners. Research by the JRF found nearly 400,000 more UK children and 300,000 more UK pensioners were in poverty in 2016-17 compared with 2012-13

@lemonsandlimes123 you're being deliberately obtuse you know very well the point I'm making - that the govt have a LOT of powers and avenues they could have used to assess his circumstances WITHOUT going immediately to stopping his money!

Geez the sheer CALLOUS and HEARTLESS attitude of far too fucking many people on this thread towards a man who DIED from starvation - do you have ANY IDEA how slow and physically painful a death like that is?!

Ffs we treat stray dogs better than this!

Shame on EVERY ONE OF YOU that's not only THOUGHT this but had the audacity to WRITE it.

Do you have ANY IDEA how very likely it is you or someone you love will be afflicted by serious mental illness? It can and does happen to anyone.

I was 32, I had previously been a fit, healthy, productive member of society. I received my 2nd degree the summer after my first breakdown. Life can turn around and bite you on the arse!

But hey, it makes you feel superior & maybe safe (falsely) in some way to think that you're above becoming mentally ill, that it's something that happens to other "weaker" people, that you would "know better" and "not let it get that bad" as if will power has ANYTHING to do with it at all.

That you would be able to easily navigate the multiple, lengthy, deeply intrusive and complicated forms for applying for benefits (I've 2 degrees, one medical the other in English I've also been a civil servant admin and I STILL couldn't get the hang of the forms), that you'd cope with the insulting, intrusive, accusatory assessments being carried out by people usually with sod all mental health training, if indeed they have ANY Medical training at all. That you'd cope just fine with being seriously ill AND advocating for yourself through appeals and court hearings to justify receiving the help you desperately need.

Those of us doing all that we ARE tough we ARE trying very damn hard just to survive!

And on top of all that we have to put up with shit like the comments on this thread "well if they won't engage with help that's on them" and all the benefit bashing tv shows, newspaper headlines, social media commentary basically pretty much always suggesting we're all faking it!

I defy any one of you to deal with that for just a week and not be seriously offended reading threads like this.

Yes that's a rant but I think it's heartily needed on this thread.

Again

SHAME ON ALL the posters who've remotely blamed this poor man for his fate.