To think that anyone can get in university nowadays?

[Darkdecent]

I know a woman who's studying to be a social worker and while I don't think for one minute she's stupid I certainly wouldn't put her down as uni material.

For example, she was a strong supporter of Alfie Evans parents and was outraged when they turned his life support machine off.

Do they just let anyone in certain universities now or am I underestimating her?

It depends what you consider to be a university. Calling all polytechnics and HE colleges university was a mistake in my opinion, and devalued vocational courses.

Some of the ignorance and prejudice on this thread is depressing. DD is in her first year at university. It is a Russell Group one, and one of her flatmates is doing a degree that has no exams. DD’s course is academically very challenging, ad has a lot more contact hours than some subjects, so she is definitely getting value for money.

In terms of RG vs ex polytechnics, there isn’t a marked dividing line about which one is better. It really does depend on the subject. For example: one of the options DD looked at before making her final degree choice was diagnostic radiography. Qualified radiographers are in short supply, so if DD had done radiography she would almost certainly have been guaranteed a job. Very few RG universities offer this as a course, and all the best universities that offer it are ex polytechnics. Last time I looked the best university to go to was Bangor.

I agree that far too many employers ask for a degree where it isn’t necessary, and that as so many young people go into higher education the value of a degree has been diluted. That’s not to say that studying for a degree is worthless. However, I do feel that some young people get steamrollered into going to university because that is what is expected of them, yet university is not necessarily the best option in these cases.

In my limited experience DD’s peers at school who received unconditional offers were those who were struggling through 6th form only achieving Ds and Es. And these offers were very definitely from universities wanting to fill places. I also feel that university is often seen by young people as a way to spend three years having fun away from interfering parents, and that getting a degree is secondary. Unfortunately I happen to know a few students who think that partying all the time and not doing any work is a badge of honour.

@SchadenfreudePersonified it isn’t easy to plagiarise other people’s work as universities now have very sophisticated anti plagiarism software. Also, A levels are much harder than they were a few years ago, with less coursework element, and are no longer modular.

@LolaSmiles all your posts make such a lot of sense. I agree with everything you have written.

PhoneLock Nottingham have stopped giving out unconditional offers. They said that they were no longer getting the right calibre of students.

I know for a fact Nottingham gave out unconditional offers this year.

PhoneLock Nottingham have stopped giving out unconditional offers. They said that they were no longer getting the right calibre of students.

Didn't Education Secretary Damian Hinds have something to do with it?

www.theguardian.com/education/2019/apr/05/dfe-tells-universities-to-stop-unethical-admissions-tactics

They were in the news last year saying that they weren't going to any more. Not sure why Nottingham feels that it has to bribe students to go there. It is a highly regarded RG university.

You are unreasonable in your specific example but as education has been commodified, yes, as long as you have, or access to, funds, you will be accepted by some University somewhere.

They offered them last year and this. Other RG unis do too.

Get a great PS and reference with top predicted grades and they are queuing up.

Get an A at EPQ and others will offer you 3 bs to get in.

The competition for the top students is huge, they go on to get good jobs, alumni data is then good.

www.nottingham.ac.uk/news/pressreleases/2019/jan/nottingham-ends-unconditional-offers.aspx

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-47057563

So Nottingham has changed its mind then?

I think a degree is now the accepted form of 'a good general education' which is what my mum used on her CV for years.

She went to a grammar and left at 15 with no qualifications, although she did do a couple of GCSEs and an A Level later on.

When I left school the benchmark was 5 O levels A-C. Only 20% of the cohort actually took any O levels.

Now many employers ask for a degree.

I agree it's different these days and not so "exclusive" but to me that has to be a good thing. So many jobs these days have "degree required" which actually you don't need a degree for. It's lazy recruitment, just a way to screen people out. My own job is one of them. There's no way i need a degree to be able to do it. I've just promoted someone who hasn't got gcses who i shouldn't have hired in the first place if I'd followed the company rules. He's the best I've had doing this particular role in a very very long time.

Based on this ridiculous requirement i think giving as many kids as possible the chance to be able to get a degree is the right thing to do.

Not sure why Nottingham feels that it has to bribe students to go there. It is a highly regarded RG university.

It's because other "highly regarded RG Universities" also offer unconditionals, so they're competing like for like against equivalent Unis.

It's the same with RG Unis offering £1k,£2k or £3k bursaries for students who choose it as their first choice.

It's very competitive. Unis want the best students to bolster their outcomes, so have to offer incentives to get the best intakes.

Unis don't want empty places on their courses meaning that they have to get them filled through clearing to students with lower grades which downgrades the course and Uni. By offering unconditionals and with incentives for first choice, they know long in advance who their students will be to avoid the last minute scrambling around.

Of course, like anything else, the system starts to get abused which is where I think we are now. The unconditionals used to be just for the most able students (top grades at GCSE, top predicted grades at A Level and plenty of content of the personal statement). By the sounds of it, they're now being handed out to more mediocre students too which is not what they were intended for.

It depends what you consider to be a university. Calling all polytechnics and HE colleges university was a mistake in my opinion, and devalued vocational courses.

I fully agree. One of the worst decisions re education, and let's face it, there've been lots of poor political decisions re education over the last 50/60/70 years.

I don't think they are being handed to more mediocre students, its still top grades at gcse, top predicted and excellent personal statement (often EPQ completed with an A grade too).

Big, big problem with unconditional offers is lots of students take their foot off the gas, they still want top grades but the pressure isn't quite as high so the intensity of work slips. Then they get lower grades.

When teaching it was highly irritating.

It's because other "highly regarded RG Universities" also offer unconditionals, so they're competing like for like against equivalent Unis.

Which ones and in what circumstances?

A glance at the table I posted earlier suggests that back in 2018 not many RG actually did offer unconditionals except in specific (and rare) circumstances.

There are just three offenders on that table. The top two have since since stopped offering unconditionals. QML only offers unconditionals after interviewing the applicant and certain other criteria are met.

www.ucas.com/file/211141/download?token=y81o3dtt

I don't think they are being handed to more mediocre students, its still top grades at gcse, top predicted and excellent personal statement (often EPQ completed with an A grade too).
It not the very best students based on some of the students I've taught in the last few years.

Whereas we used to get the occasional unconditional offer for excellent students or exceptionally talented students who were applying to conservatoire, like you've said, there's now loads of students who've got middle GCSE grades and would get C's at A Level if they put the appropriate work in. They get their unconditional offer and then decide they don't need to worry about working because they've already got into university. Some of them really think they're going to have an equal chance of a career as a lawyer, barrister etc as someone with higher grades, better work ethic and a better degree from a better university.

Meanwhile other more middle students with a good work ethic are working their socks off to get Bs and As to try and get on better courses.

Which ones and in what circumstances?

Between my son and some of his school friends - Newcastle, Leeds, York, all RG Unis.

Between my son and some of his school friends - Newcastle, Leeds, York, all RG Unis.

According to UCAS Leeds don't give unconditional offers. York does but not many (1.7% of applications in 2018). Likewise, Newcastle does, but even fewer ( 0.4% of applications in 2018).

Eldest DD has just graduated from uni with a very high 2:1 just missed a 1st which apparently is hard to get on her course. She took an unconditional offer as she was struggling with just being diagnosed with autism, but it didn't make her coast her A'levels as she had a place. She absolutely flourished there she was commuting andworking 40+ hour weeks during her dissertation as well as being a carer, she would never have done that if she hadn't of gone. Hopefully she'll be accepted to a master's degree next year.

DS has just been offered an unconditional place at his interview on a highly competitive, only 30 places available course at his first choice uni which his teachers can't believe has happened. He's worked hard for that place after struggling to settle in a new 6th form and having to drop an A'level so has done it through sheer determination despite only doing two A'levels instead of the required three. He has already chosen the university he wants to do his masters at when he completes his degree.

The fields they have chosen require degrees so they are working bloody hard to get there, an unconditional offer isn't always easy to be offered so doesn't always mean that it's an easy course to do.

We aren't talking about unconditional offers at non RG universities.

That I know of last year:
Newcastle
York
Leeds
QML
Nottingham
Liverpool

In the past lots of others in the RG too.

Definitely, my friend got into uni without a single GCSE through clearing

Your friend is not telling the truth, you cannot get admitted to university without proving you have passed your English and Maths GCSE's if you are a 'Home' student. If you are from the EU or classed as international student you need to provided the NARIC authorised equivalent qualification

It's why many mature students end up doing access courses - it's simply to gain these qualifications. It does matter what A levels or equivalents you have.

I have worked at both a red brick university and a ex polytechnic university, and the decline in admissions criteria is astonishing.

The increase in tuition fees and employers now valuing experience over education means no student goes to university to toss it off for three years now. If they are doing something non vocational such as English or History, they have to bolt on loads of experience and extra circular activities to make it work.

According to the students we have surveyed , the cost of the accommodation is now a big issue and contributes to the financial problems. The maintenance loan a student received 5 years ago would pay for the student halls with half left over for ' fun' or living costs. Students worked if they wanted a bit extra.

Now all the maintenance loan goes on accommodation fees, and students HAVE to work to afford food and transport , if they are not getting subbed by parents.

The university system will collapse soon, I'm sure. It already relies on International students to fund it. The Cororna virus will see 1'000's of Chinese students not arriving for their spring/ summer English courses, and therefore not paying or moving on to more lucrative full degrees and that in itself will be a mini crises.

What a weird thread, with no point to it,
Wtf has an opinion on life support management got to do with attending university.
I went to uni and gained an Hons Degree and PgCE, having left school with nothing, I'm glad they let anyone in.

Newcastle University are very open about unconditional offers. From their website:

Unconditional offers will be made on some courses, to students who we believe will make a substantial contribution to our student community and who we really want to study with us. If you receive an unconditional offer from us, this demonstrates our confidence that you have the necessary qualities to succeed in your exams at school or college and to excel on your chosen degree. The unconditional offer will allow you to focus on your studies so that you can achieve excellent results

Link here

I doubt very much that these will be aimed at students working at level Cs. Yet my experience when DD was at school - she left in June 2018, was that the students getting unconditional offers were those averaging Cs or less.

I'm surprised at the idea of the Uni of Nottingham offering unconditionals to middle-attaining students. The last person I know of to go there was a very talented, hardworking student (who I thought would be an asset to any uni) and their conditional offer demanded a flipping A*.

It may of course be departmental.

I think people are talking rubbish when they talk about middle attaining students.

I managed the UCAS process in my former role (head of 6th and economics teacher) before leaving to work in another area.

My experience is that its now students with top GCSE grades, in the past top AS grades, ones who have loads of evidence of super curricular learning on their PS and great references. Often they'll have an A at EPQ achieved in y 12 too.

I think people are talking rubbish when they talk about middle attaining students
Ah yes, the Mumsnet argument: when all else fails, simply decide that if someone else's experience isn't your experience then it must be nonsense.
Because you didn't see a trend in your former role, anyone describing what they are currently seeking mustn't have a clue. Right.