Patronising ? Sexist, or sensible ?

[SerendipityJane]

Seems sports talk is exclusionary

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51261999

Chat about football or cricket in the workplace should be curtailed, a management body has warned.

(contd)

Not quite sure where that leaves guys who hate sport ? Presumably feeling a little bit of a failure at life. At least according to Ann Francke, head of the Chartered Management Institute

YANBU:- Patronising, cliched and wildly offensive to men and women
YABU:- At last, someone gets it !

Ridiculous. 1) many women like sport 2) on the basis it isn’t spreading hate you can’t censor people’s chat 3) if you don’t like the chat change the conversation / take the piss. I work in the City. It’s male dominated . If sport is mentioned I just yawn. I’m more concerned about getting women into management positions / equal pay

More people who add zero to society

I think incessant, loud chat about one topic, which is often footba””, can be oppressive for the rest of the office who don’t like that one topic.

Football is one where it happens a lot. And it’s men’s voices usually dominating that chat, and sometimes even mocking women if they try to join in. So if it’s aimed at that i agree.

It’s not the sport itself it’s the way certain topics can dominate and be excluding.

I like to chat about sport.

I'm a woman.

What I do find exclusionary is chat about make up, clothes, diets, soap operas, reality TV shows and other stuff I'm not personally interested in so please ban them all.

FFS

I'd accept a ban on talking about sport at work if there is also a ban on talking about weddings.

I think incessant, loud chat about one topic, which is often footba””, can be oppressive for the rest of the office who don’t like that one topic.

sure, but that has nothing to do with gender. You could pretend that women are obsessed with Love Island kind of crap and stereotype all the way!

It's just rude and insulting to pretend women are either too thick or too fragile to cope with sports talk. Or that men are obsessed with football.

^^
No it’s not necessarily about the sex of the participants. It’s about not letting one topic dominate the conversation and exclude others (who at the same time can hear it loudly).

It should be common sense / basic empathy, but it’s amazing how many people don’t get that their topic isn’t fascinating to all!

It's just rude and insulting to pretend women are either too thick or too fragile to cope with sports talk. Or that men are obsessed with football.

^^

I strongly agree with this and that’s why I put that one of the worst things is not “allowing” women (or men) to join in a particular topic that is being loudly discussed.

@WeeSleekitTimerousMoosey, yes but at least you wear clothes and have to eat, so within those topics you know something about them.

When all day Monday Is dominated by football, it does get a bit much. Especially as said, it isn't done quietly and without some conflict or negativity.

However this is more about laddish culture and tbh, it's starting to creep in everywhere, again.

I talk about football and occasionally F1. I don't talk about Strictly.
Don't you just ignore stuff that bores you and talk about stuff that doesn't. If you like. Or don't pay attention. Just an idea.

If they ban sports talk because it’s stereotypically masculine, then they should also ban stereotypically feminine TV talk about shows like strictly come dancing, great British bake off, love island and all similar things.

In fact ban all non work chit chat. Cogs in machines have no identity, and should only discuss work matters.

(Sarcasm)

Ridiculous. I don’t follow any sports, some of my team though. They will have a chat about last nights game and then move on. I don’t join in the sport conversation and I’m really not bothered.

The problem isn’t the topic of chat, it’s how it’s being said in which case that’s up for a manager to pick if someone is people particularly loud and obnoxious.

Sexist. As my name indicates, I'm a football fan and OK, I hate it when people rub losses in my face, but I'd rather talk about football than TV or diets or people's kids or how there are too many gay people on telly these days (the kind of things my colleagues talked about). Some men do think women shouldn't like football or have opinions on it, including actual footballers like Alex Scott or Hope Solo, but that doesn't mean it should be banned. And no, I don't feel the need to go from 'I can't believe Burnley beat Man United' to talking about sex, wtf.

I think excessive talk of any topic should be avoided at work.

Can’t believe a CEO of a business organisation can spout such guff.

Lots of women are interested in sport, she must live in a bubble.

What other topics of conversation is she thinking of banning?

Why would anyone shout I’ve been excluded when people are talking about something they’re not interested in?

I certainly couldn’t take part in a discussion about Love Island or TOWIE, but there’s no way I would want to ban those people from talking about it.

The woman is a fool and a liability.

"It's very easy for it to escalate from VAR talk and chat to slapping each other on the back and talking about their conquests at the weekend."
WTF did I just read! It’s always terrifying when you’re presented with evidence that some utter fruit cake is part of some management team whose decisions might actually impact society. Ans that’s before you get to the Tory front bench. Whataworld!

It’s a slippery slope, policing what people can discuss or not at work

I saw this on the bbc website. I thought there'd be a thread about it.

Patronising and sexist. I 'm quite interested in football and cricket and happy to join in conversations about it. I am utterly bored by talk about what's happening in EastEnders. Can we ban that?

I think the point comes right at the end of that article

Recruiter Peter Ferguson said: "I have seen managers and staff build a more direct bond over a shared love of sport which has excluded those who don't share that interest.

"The answer is not to ban the conversation, it is to ensure managers and staff are trained to understand that those shared interests should not get in the way of management decisions or working collaboratively."

When promotion comes along proportionately more often to those a manager can talk about football with, you've got a problem. And if most managers are men, it can lead to problems for women working under them.
Do female managers promote women that they can talk (insert topic seen as feminine) stuff' with?
I don't know. But possibly.

It’s a tricky one as I don’t like sport much, so whilst I would never say anything, I do think people who talk about sport incessantly in front of people who don’t like sport are rude.

When I am in a work or social setting, I try to talk to everyone, not just those who share my interests.

She didn't say to ban it, she said to moderate it.

Nevertheless, Ms Francke does not think sports chatter should be banned, just moderated.
She said that good managers should be inclusive and ensure that everyone in their team feels comfortable.

I think sports are just an easy extreme to use to make the point. It's about trying to make sure that everyone feels able to participate in the conversation. To be honest, I don't think that the topic is the issue - it's more that there can be a sense of male entitlement that directs the conversation. This could just make people aware that maybe there is one group of people controlling the majority of social interaction.

One of the things I’ve always taken great pride in is my ability to convince blokes that I know stuff about football and actually care about it.

It’s so easy it’s laughable. No need to ban the football chat

@Blacksackunderthetreesfreeze

I get what you're saying.

There is, in some places, an attitude of entitlement around 'lads sport talk' where I've seen women shunned for trying to get involved, excessive bonding that excludes other staff (and spills into other low-level unpleasantness), and a general attitude that chat about sport is ok, but other topics are time-wasting.

It's not everywhere, but I recognise exactly the kind of culture that they're targeting.

It's all very well saying it's patronising, but that comes from an assumed knowledge of the circumstances they're trying to address and the relative power of people in those circumstance to effect change themselves.

What's that called... privilege, something?

IME being a woman and an ethnic minority is even harder as I am usually left out of fantasy football and sweepstakes. It’s just assumed that I wouldn’t want to take part ,where as the other women are at least included.

The rare occasions I am invited I always say yes immediately and hand over my cash that same day. Otherwise I don’t say anything as I don’t want to be ‘that person.’

Moderating people chat is ridiculous. Regardless of topic.

I dont give a fuck about Susan's adult children and how they cant cope with adult life with hourly input from her. The woman that sits next to susan seems to care.

I wouldnt tell susan that she is excluding everyone else because no one else gives a fuck.

I love my dog. I dont care that John's dog is best dog ever, I dont care that John's wife video calls so he can see the dog. But that's up to him.

If people chat at work and its something I am interested in chatting about, I will join in. If I dont know anything I light ask questions. If I am not interested, I just dont get involved.