To think this class-obsessed country uses DC's names to change theirs?

[GinDaddy]

I live in the South of England, I'm heading towards middle age, so this gives you some context before my OP, which is..

AIBU to think people are giving their DCs "posh" or "aspirational" names as status signifiers? (Which ironically immediately marks them out to me as such?)

I realise there's always been fashionable and unfashionable names since time immemorial. But what I'm talking about is the slew of names which I would previously only expect to hear on Made In Chelsea or Guy Pelly's guest list at Boujis.

Arabella. Annabelle. Isabelle. Amelia. Jasper. Oscar. Oliver (to be inevitably commuted immediately to Ollie in faux-braying tones). Hugo. Theo. Leo. Harry (not even bothering to use the proper Harold, just going straight to the diminutive because well, it sounds right).

It's just a bit odd really. People can and will call their child what they like, but why are so many folk (and it's always the same folk, the ones who are project managers, who love myWaitrose and head tilting, whose teeth chatter when grandparents offer DC a Kinder Surprise) enamoured with these names?

Can someone actually explain this to me? No one has ownership of names, but I cannot believe that some people aren't using this as some sort of social signifier. 15 years ago not everyone was called Ollie or Theo. I didn't know a load of Arabellas or Amelias, I knew a few but that was commensurate with the environment.

AIBU to think the popularity of these names comes from their associate social status?

@GinDaddy Agree with other posters that you have a chip on your shoulder. And this is an uber-goady thread!

Oliver (to be inevitably commuted immediately to Ollie in faux-braying tones)

Don't be preposterous.

Ollie is classless now.

Names spread.

I agree names often start as m/c names and then become popular with everyone. Harry for example. You cite it as posh. Have you been in an urban primary recently? Likewise Archie and Alfie.

You have pulled together a ragbag of names to go on some chip (on shoulder) driven rant.

@TigerOnATrain

How is this "uber goady"?

It's not remotely an emotionally sensitive topic, it's a discussion about sociology, class perception, names.

Fucking names. I mean, other previous posters have got that and have said "why is OP getting a kicking?"

Well I'm getting a kicking because I struck a nerve with some of you. Clearly.

@GinDaddy

My sons have two of the names listed in your OP.

I’m Scottish, live outside Glasgow and I’m not what you’d call middle class. I just liked the names.

Now, if you’d like my tuppence worth, you sound a bit bitter for some reason and a bit unhinged.

head tilt are you ok?

The OP is getting a hard time here.

In fairness, when we looked at names, we eliminated a few because they were “too posh”. It probably would be fair to say that we wanted “aspirational” names but not too aspirational.

One of my sons is an Oliver. We've always used Oli when shortened, are we common and classless?

@alifelived

My whole entire point was that someone from your demographic would be using those names. So your "point" has just proven mine.

Please look up the definition of "unhinged". While you're at it, look at the posts on this thread where folk have said "I've named my kids similar names and agree with your post OP".

I'm not coming at this from some mental place.

What is an “aspirational name” and how can a name be “too aspirational”?

Do you realise how bonkers that sounds? @CruCru

The names you mention in there are super popular, And mainstream.

I think people tend to try and be more outlandish to look posh!

@GinDaddy

No it hasn’t proven anything because a name is a name 😂😂😂😂 it doesn’t have a class attached to it. Stop being absolutely absurd and go find something else to moan about.

YABU. You don’t know why people give their DC ‘posh’ names. My name IRL is French and is considered posh, if you look it up on Wikipedia it’s written that it has an aura of glamour and elegance because it was the name of a very elegant and famous classic style icon.

I was named after my grandfather though.
Isabella, one of the names on your list was on my list for potential girls names because it was my late, beloved grandmother’s name.

My DC is a boy and has one of the names you mentioned as an example as well 😂. I did not give him that name to aspire him to appear ‘high class’ but because it’s a very classic name that has a beautiful meaning. Plus my husband liked it because one of the greatest men in the history of my country has the same first name.

GinDaddy

Not sure how long you have been on here but there are a few things that don’t go down very well on MN, will be instantly dismissed but interestingly will gain many responses

• the snobbery on here and the desire by so many to let others know they are MC (it’s crass to point out)

• white privilege

I get where you are coming from. Had I had a girl I would have chosen one of the names you listed it’s a lovely name and most definitely has a MC ring to it rather than WC which is preferably as we all form judgements

OP have you a list of names you deem suitable?

If you want to find a bias towards a trend, you'll find it. Most of the people I know personally chose their child's names because they loved the name; family names came into it at times when friends named their DC, but for the most parent I don't think "aspirational, but not too aspirational" crossed any of their minds.

I've taught many years of Reception classes and haven't found anything to confirm your bias about middle-class names; how a child's parents behave towards themselves and others, how a child is spoken to, the family dynamic, those are some of the things I've found have the biggest impact. But again, that could be my bias. Everyone has them; it's just that you're adamant yours are right and everyone else has had nerves hit by your groundbreaking insight rather than simply disagreeing because their lived experiences don't match your own.

What a load of crap.

I have a son called Oliver. He’s 17 in March, born 2003. We live on the outskirts of Liverpool and he was named after my mum’s friend’s cat because I loved the name I have not got a posh bone in my body.

@EnthusiasmIsDisturbed

Thank you for this post and for sharing, and for not attacking me!

@Zoflorabore

Thanks for posting your hyper specific individual case as an attempt at refutation of my theory.

I guess like my SUV post from months ago, I'll have to sit and wade through hundreds of people throwing abuse my way while offering immediate personal anecdotes as to why they chose, saying "but wait, I named my child Harry because of my favourite book character" and endless other justifications that fail to discuss or address any wider point I raised.

@GinDaddy

This thread has not gone the way you expected eh?

Did you expect everyone to think you were hilariously funny, sharp, and witty, and the thread would wing its way into mumsnet classics???

Instead, you have ended up with a spectacular epic fail........ and looking remarkably silly......... with your daft remarks like 'ooooh have I hit a raw nerve?' Grow up, seriously. You sound like a catty and argumentative 13 year old girl, who doesn't like being told NO, and hates to admit she is wrong.

In fairness, when we looked at names, we eliminated a few because they were “too posh”.

Yes but were they actually really popular names, some of them in fact 1st/2nd most common in the UK?

Because that’s what the OP’s talking about and that’s what makes this whole thread bizarre.

My “hyper specific individual case” ?? Who the fuck talks like that?

I was simply pointing out that names are chosen for other reasons than you cite. Maybe it’s because we like them

My “hyper specific individual case” ?? Who the fuck talks like that?

Men when they are talking down to women.

I think it’s more the pretentious tone of the replies the OP has posted that is getting people’s backs up. Who gives a fuck if you went to Oxbridge and whatever else? It doesn’t make you any more of a person than anyone on this thread or your comments any more worthy.

It is a goady thread, regardless of what OP says. Posting about baby names and class on a parenting forum, especially AIBU, is a red rag to a bull and given your education and evident wisdom you seem keen to push upon us all, you can’t have been so clueless to believe it wouldn’t rile people. Especially naming everyday names that aren’t in any way aspirational, they’re just names that have been around for centuries.

I’d be very interested to hear your list of permitted names for the lower classes, just so y’know, they don’t get above their station or anything. It appears the many times you’ve been asked you’ve refused to comment, yet gave some witty little retort to anyone who bites back at you. So come on, let’s have your list of permitted names.

GinDaddy know your place

I think it’s more interesting the number of people that have high income ,high status jobs ,live in big houses and yet remain “ working class” in every other respect. That includes calling their children Finn or Troy or Chantelle or Jody.
I have a old friend who friends all fall into this group.
They don’t feel any need to be middle class through their children or otherwise.

My godparents never took to me because they thought my name was too posh. They thought my parents were being snobby and aspirational. I’ve got a very normal name but my parents gave me a longer version (like calling a little girl Katherine even if you intend to call her Kate).
They were twats to get so het up about a name. It’s just a name!

And gin! everyone knows gin is a woman’s drink... miaow