Elderly mother wanting hospital discharge against advice

[TheoriginalLEM]

My mother is difficult to say the least. She is 85 and has complex medical needs. She is self neglecting and just over a week ago was admitted to hospital at deaths door, she has carers but was refusing food and water.

She agreed to stay in hospital with a view to a transfer to a cottage hospital for convalesence and rehab. She has MH issues and is under the useless psychiatrist.

The self neglect has been going for a long time.

I don't want her to go home, yes she is better than she was but is frail. She was vile to me yesterday (she always is)- apparently the Dr said she could go home but the nurse said this wasn't true.

I'm going today to hopefully speak to the dr or nurse in charge.

She wants to self discharge but i kniw this will just start the cycle of self neglect and quite frankly, running me ragged, and I think it would be a huge mistake.

The issue is I don't have power of attorney (big mistake) and she has capacity - surely though the medics can step in if someone isn't self caring and refusing care?

OP if it helps any the decision was taken out of your hands. Try and let go of the guilt. Glad the doctors picked up on the situation

So my daughter has found out and has gone mental at me. She is devastated because my father had really bad dementia and was badly neglected in a "care" home.

Its why I've been so resistant.

So now my daughter hates me

It's the right decision OP though I understand why it feels so bad. I went from trying everything to keep my dad at home, which he said he wanted, to being desperate to get him into a care home because the existence he had was awful at home and was a constant source of distress and worry to me. Even at that point, though, he insisted he was fine, was looking after himself ok, even though everyone else could see he wasn't. They don't see it and/or don't want to admit it. Sadly that doesn't make them right. You have the added dimension of your mum being manipulative as well as this now diagnosis of dementia.

My dad is so much safer and better cared for now. I hope this is achievable for your mum too. Don't be afraid of care homes full stop.

Tell your daughter to move in with her then. You really need to step back, switch your phone off.

Sorry that's happened OP but what was your daughter proposing instead? She can't seriously think your mum could have gone home. Was she going to offer to do the care? Tell her to speak to the doctors herself and get it from them.

How old is your DD?
Does she not understand that Nana needs specialist care and as none of you are specialists it would be unsafe for Nana etc?

At this point the decision is out of your hands. Do you have POA for your mum welfare? No, well as your mum does not have capacity that means the professionals will be making best interest decisions on your mum behalf.

So you do not have the power at this point anyway to bring your mum home so please stop feeling guilty.

Your dd needs to get over herself. She cannot step in, you cannot , the professionals are taking responsibility for the decisions now. You can visit the home with a place to reassure yourselves it is not awful. Your dm probably won't like it but you all need space and she will get cared for.

I bet your dd has been manipulated by your mum too - same situation here. If your dd is an adult let her try to care for her then, she won’t manage it. No one knows how it is unless they actually walk a mile in your shoes.

My own dd was 16 when my manipulative mum died. She had been the doting grandparent to her / she saved all her venom and hate for me. So my dd can never understand how I feel / felt about my Mum. I wish I had cut contact years and years before she died.

As I said in a previous post, your daughter has absolutely no right to oppose your mother going into residential care unless she is prepared to look after her herself. Which I bet she isn’t. Call her bluff and tell her to step in. I’m so sorry you seem to have such an uncaring family. I hope your DH supports you.

You are making the absolute right decision. Your daughter will get over it eventually. There was similar with my Gran. Mum and my Auntie (who naturally bore the brunt of care) were in favour, their brothers (who did as little as they could get away with) were vehemently opposed. Mum and Auntie forged ahead and their brothers realized that unless they wanted to put up and increase their care load they needed to just shut up. They shut up.

Don't cause a ruckus by telling her that if she doesn't like it she can take care of Gran herself. Just keep repeating "I'm sorry you feel that way, but we've taken professional advice and we agree with them that Gran will be better cared for and safer in the long run in a care home. We remember what happened with Granddad and we will take care to see it doesn't happen with Gran".

If you feel that it might help DD to be involved in the selection process, then ask her if she wants to be involved. But if she'd simply obstruct and find fault then just move ahead without her.

Just tell your DD that the dr said your mother needed to be in a care home as she has dementia - it isn’t your doing!

Btw, the reason social services/the NHS hasn’t been as helpful as you might prefer is because they are trained to listen to the patient. Not to her family or carers, but to her, and if she has had capacity and has insisted on going home, then they will try to meet her wishes.

Dd is a little more understanding today.

Shame the same can't be said for my mother. I went to see her in the hospital and sat there for an hour while she catalogued how i shouldn't have interfered in her life and should have left her alone. If i had done that she'd be dead now.

The guilt isn't shifting. Not helped by the inevitable slowness of anything happening.

You can't stop your mother ageing

You can't stop her having MH issues

You can't stop her having a personality disorder

You can't stop her being abusive.

Start reading up on FOG and sort your self esteem out.

LEM, I have followed your struggles with your mum for years. I think it's for the best that the decision has been taken out of your hands. Your dd will come around to it and you will feel less stressed in the long run, knowing that your mum will be cared for.

You know that no matter what had happened your mum would have put the guilt trip on you.

Maybe it's time to protect yourself from that nastiness by having a break from visiting her for a while.

Oh LEM! I'm so sorry. My mum wasn't quite aware that she was actually moving. She thought she was 'going to a hotel'. By the time she realized she wasn't leaving she was settled in and happy where she was. The staff was so attentive and caring and there were so many planned activities that she was too busy and occupied to think about it. Now, of course, she doesn't realize what's going on around her.

Remember that you do NOT have to sit there and allow your mother to abuse you. You really, really do NOT. If she starts in you are 100% entitled to simply get up and leave.

@TheoriginalLEM

Did you manage to get your mum into some sort of respite care at all?

Hoping you’ve managed to x

Agree with AcrossthePond55 , if she starts just say you are sorry she feels like that , then leave.

This thread is heartbreaking to read OP, but not for the reason that you'll immediately think - it's heartbreaking because your 'D'M has done a real number on you. She's utterly horrible to you, verbally abuses you, blames you for everything that is wrong in her life, and you just sit there and take it. And then you take abuse from your DD too. I realise it's hard to consider putting your elderly DM in a care home, but not all care homes are shit - some are bloody great and how would allowing her to go home and lie festering on her sofa be better? Please stop beating yourself up (your DM does that enough already). You sound caring, loving, but exhausted and utterly worn down. Time to look after yourself and let your DM be looked after by professionals who won't let her abuse them (or at least won't take it personally if she does)

Take a look at this OP:

outofthefog.website/

I went through all of this with my mum. We were never close and she would often be unkind to me. My brother lived 6 hours away and everything fell to me.

Around this time I was in family court regarding taking on my two young gs's. It took the SW involved to be very blunt. If I wanted to bring the boys home that simply would not happen whilst I was having to care for my difficult, demanding, incontinent mother. It was a lightbulb moment but I will always feel guilt.

I said that I could not provide care nor could I take her home with me and I held very firm. Before she went into a home, she had a fall and the ambulance staff were awful with me, telling me I should take her home etc. People will make up their own minds about you whatever the truth.

I do not think you can carry on op. As they say, who cares for the carers? If she comes home, the situation will break down and you will end up in a cycle of repetition. You cannot carry on with home support because it is in adequate for her needs. You cannot let this happen again for your own sanity.

She needs a SW who can look into a residential placement with respite care in the meantime.

God I do feel for you op 💐
My very elderly frail mother is in hospital again, following another fall. My blind, 98year old father will insist, again, on having her home, agree to Carers and everything that the hospital and SW suggests then cancel the lot once she's home because he objects to paying. One of my sisters colludes with him. They have pots of money, full capacity and he thinks he knows better than everyone else.
We wait for the next time, the other sister and I just dread the day mum falls and breaks something.