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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Elderly mother wanting hospital discharge against advice

173 replies

TheoriginalLEM · 25/01/2020 09:04

My mother is difficult to say the least. She is 85 and has complex medical needs. She is self neglecting and just over a week ago was admitted to hospital at deaths door, she has carers but was refusing food and water.

She agreed to stay in hospital with a view to a transfer to a cottage hospital for convalesence and rehab. She has MH issues and is under the useless psychiatrist.

The self neglect has been going for a long time.

I don't want her to go home, yes she is better than she was but is frail. She was vile to me yesterday (she always is)- apparently the Dr said she could go home but the nurse said this wasn't true.

I'm going today to hopefully speak to the dr or nurse in charge.

She wants to self discharge but i kniw this will just start the cycle of self neglect and quite frankly, running me ragged, and I think it would be a huge mistake.

The issue is I don't have power of attorney (big mistake) and she has capacity - surely though the medics can step in if someone isn't self caring and refusing care?

OP posts:
Original poster
TheoriginalLEM · 26/01/2020 21:38

I am thinking of asking thar the care package is pared back to 2x a day as I wonder if them being there 3x a day is facilitating her just festering on the sofa. Although she is insisting on not having carers at all ffs

I did speak to her about buying a cooker but she dismissed it. It would mean she could have nicer food.

She called me tonight telling me I have to ring them in the morning and tell them she wants to come home. In some ways I'm hoping they take things out of my hands.

I'm coming to the end of a three year training course, so studying on top of a 40hr working week i just don't have enough hours in the day to take on all her care.

DP and I have fallen out twice this week over hospital visits - I can't drive so it's all on him to drive me, although shescloser to home now so i can go on the bus. He doesn't want to go over tomorrow- well neither do I but what can I do

OP posts:
RandomMess · 26/01/2020 22:03

What you can do is tell your Mum and the hospital you will not be caring for her, running errands or anything else...

LIZS · 26/01/2020 22:09

You do not have to go to visit, everyday or any day. Put yourself , your dh and your dc first.

She could have meals delivered like Wiltshire Farm Food but would she bother to eat them, even assuming a carer cooked them. Agree your relationship is dysfunctional to the point of abusive. How would you advise your dd if this were reversed?

JKScot4 · 26/01/2020 22:38

what can I do
Listen to all the advice here!!
You are ignoring everything pp have said, you are clinging on as if she’s going to be the mum you want, she’s not and never will be.
Look at this with objective view, imagine she’s a neighbour not related to you, would you tolerate this crap? Also accept she is 85 and in very poor health yet you’re convincing yourself there’s some miraculous improvement on the horizon, acceptance is what you need.
Do not put your own MH, marriage and family at risk for this woman.

Orangeblossom78 · 27/01/2020 06:49

You sound like a victim. / Martyr sorry. We all have a choice. Understand what the DP means

AnnaMagnani · 27/01/2020 08:28

I am thinking of asking that the care package is pared back to 2x a day

You are as big a part of the problem as she is. OMG.

stinkycat101 · 27/01/2020 09:57

Have you had a family meeting about discharge yet, OP? Or sat down with the OT and social worker to find out where they're at now regarding capacity etc?

Butterymuffin · 27/01/2020 10:03

You've said yourself they consider her to have capacity, so on what basis can you get them to cut back the care package? You can't. The better way to approach that is to tell them 'well, you've said she has capacity so it's your job to agree what's done with her, but I can't do any of the caring / shopping / whatever she is telling you I do for her, anymore, and I will not be involved, so make all your decisions about discharge etc on that basis'.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 27/01/2020 10:19

Someone who is ‘difficult’ but still has mental capacity, can refuse to admit carers - they can’t force an entry. It’s quite a common scenario with elderly people who don’t want strangers in the house, and (as they see it) interfering or poking around their things.

It’s not always a simple case of arranging a care package, though that is rarely a simple matter anyway.

OP, has your mother got house keys on her? And if not, and you don’t provide any, they can’t take her home, and you are certainly not obliged to, if you think she’s far from ready. If she does have keys, would you be able to find and remove them?

CarrotVan · 27/01/2020 10:44

@TheoriginalLEM you don't need to visit her in hospital. You don't need to speak to her in hospital. You have no responsibility for her.

My parents are similar age, care refusers, difficult and manipulative. When they are in hospital they are lucky to get 2 visits a week because their kids are at a distance, have young families, work full time etc etc

Listen to DH and stop running when she calls. She'll respect you more for saying no I expect

Original poster
TheoriginalLEM · 27/01/2020 19:35

@stinkycatbreath not for the want of trying! After being told to call the ward manager today to attend the best interest meeting she didn't even know about it. There is no such meeting and no plan in place. My mum has been on the phone to me today begging to come home and DP is now saying just to bring her home because they don't have a plan.

I'm torn - I don't want to keep her in hospital without a plan, either for refining the care package or providing a respite/rehab bed.

@ANNAMAGNANI that is a little unfair. My rationale for that is to try and encourage her to do bits for herself rather than relying on the carers for everything as she IS capable but choses not to. However i have been advised against that as once its gone it might be difficult to reinstate.

OP posts:
Nearlyalmost50 · 27/01/2020 19:49

They cannot discharge her without a plan. Be patient. If you help her out of the hospital against medical advice, you risk her care as effectively you are taking responsibility for her yet again. Co-ordination is required, even just to reinstate her existing care package. One solution might be to go to PALS and say you are unsure what is being arranged for your mum for the future and can they look into it.

There's absolutely no point in bringing her back against medical advice, and if she is properly discharged, there will be a plan, even if it is that she has what she had previously.

You are basically falling for her blackmail, it'll be different this time- if she doesn't eat and is mentally ill, how is going back home in the same situation going to be a solution, if she was nearly at death's door when she came into hospital?

I would ask to speak with the consultant in charge of her care (there has to be one) and to PALS if you don't get at least a contact that knows something about this by tomorrow.

It may also be that your mum is not ready at all for discharge and that is why they are not running around trying to get a plan together. Do not give her a lift home, keep repeating 'I'm sure the drs know better than I do what you need' and leave.

ukgift2016 · 27/01/2020 19:56

I agree, you are are not listening to any of the advice on here.

JKScot4 · 27/01/2020 20:06

Let her beg!!
Christ on a bike woman!! Listen to what folk are telling you!!
Step back, if she phoned tell her “No mum you can’t come home until you accept help, I will NOT be doing it”
You’ve admitted she’s horrible to you, always has been. You need to accept that at 85 she isn’t ever going to be the mum you want, you are in complete denial, if I was your DH I’d be giving you an ultimatum.

JKScot4 · 27/01/2020 20:08

Also if you let her discharge you can kiss goodbye to support.

gobbynorthernbird · 27/01/2020 20:12

You'll be back in a couple of months with the same issues, having made a decision to continue to martyr yourself to this weird abusive/codependent relationship. And you'll get the same advice, which you'll ignore again. Except, at some point, your partner and kids will have had enough of always coming second.

stinkycat101 · 27/01/2020 22:22

OP if you allow your mum to discharge herself then nothing at all will change. It's frustrating that there is no plan yet, but believe me they don't just keep elderly people in hospital because they can't be arsed to sort out the discharge. They do it because the person isn't ready to go home. Or because getting them home is challenging.
Please arrange a meeting with the team dealing with her so you can talk about what is happening.
If you just take her own, you'll be on your own.

GooseberryJam · 27/01/2020 22:56

If you get her from hospital before there's a plan, you will be the plan. You have to sit tight, do nothing and offer nothing. Then they have to work it out and it can't just be loaded onto you.

Original poster
TheoriginalLEM · 28/01/2020 20:48

Really weird we went over the hospital and mum was reading a magazine, didn't speak to us hardly at all and didn't even look up from the magazine when we left.

Not sure if that's good or bad. No mention of going home

The best interest meeting is scheduled for Friday, i don't think they are going to advise she goes home Sad

OP posts:
JKScot4 · 28/01/2020 20:57

@Theoriginal
Her not going home is a good thing, she’ll get the care she needs and she’ll not be reliant on you, why would you think that was bad?

GooseberryJam · 28/01/2020 21:09

That's good OP. A day without any more demands on you is positive!

Have you had any counselling about the relationship you have with your mum? I think it should help. She has really pulled you into the guilt trap.

Nearlyalmost50 · 28/01/2020 21:12

It is sad when there's a realization that life cannot go on as before and that everything is changing, the person is deteriorating, this is all very sad stuff. The meeting is best interest which suggests your mum isn't deemed to have full capacity over her life choices and you don't have power of attorney, so ultimately they can choose for you- or at least not allow her to remain in an unsafe environment. If she is eating better, interested in magazines and not shouting at you, it suggests that something is changing very slightly for the better. My guess is she is taking her meds in hospital.

Original poster
TheoriginalLEM · 28/01/2020 21:26

You are all very kind.

She clearly isn't happy with me jyst now but i know this is for the best.

I don't know what I am feeling right now.

OP posts:
Nearlyalmost50 · 28/01/2020 21:34

Oh LEM she wasn't happy with you before! Some people just aren't happy with others, and probably aren't happy in themselves. She's mentally ill as well and so there are all kinds of things going on that mean she won't be happy wherever she is, to be honest. There really aren't any other choices, though,- if she had three daily visits that's the max they will put into place and if that isn't sufficient to keep her fed, safe and medicated, then there aren't so many choices. What a hard time for you all.

cptartapp · 29/01/2020 07:02

It doesn't matter if she's not happy with you. You're not happy with her. Your feelings don't come second.
You don't need to prioritise her being happy. You need to prioritise her being safe. And your mental health. You'll be here long after she's gone.

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