To not be able to get over how DS and I were treated in the first few weeks of his life?

[AngeloMysterioso]

I’m sorry, this is a long one...

I gave birth to DS in November last year on a Sunday. At the time we were living with PILs (long story, more than 1 thread about it if anyone cares enough to look it up!). DS ended up being delivered by ventouse and I had to have an episiotomy.

We brought DS home the day after he was born. As soon as we got in the house, the first person to get him out of the car seat and give him a big cuddle was... FIL. Not me. He scooped him out of the car seat before I’d even had a chance to take my coat off. I had been looking forward to sitting and having a big snuggle with him when we got him home but that moment was taken away from me.

We already knew before I’d had DS that BIL and his GF were planning on coming up to stay for a weekend, arriving on the Friday morning- it ended up being the weekend after DS was born. I was in no way ready for yet more people to see me in my raw post partum state but didn’t feel it was my place to object as it was PILs house. When DS was two days old DH and I heard MIL on the phone inviting relatives round on the Friday evening “yeah, come round and see the baby whenever you like!” DH and I were like um, do we have a say in this?! DH spoke to her and asked her very politely to run it by us if she was going to invite people round to see our baby, and she got all upset and offended. So when DS was 5 days old I had to make myself presentable as BIL, BILs GF, MIL’s cousin, her son and his wife all descended on the house. Mercifully DS was asleep in his Moses basket the whole time they were there so I didn’t have to deal with them passing him around like a sack of spuds, but at one point FIL, wanting to show off in front of MILs family, thought it would be a good idea to tickle him while he slept!

Both MIL and FIL had a habit of taking DS out of his Moses basket when he was asleep and holding him for hours instead. Or MIL would get home from work, say she wanted a quick cuddle and several hours later still be holding him. It got to the point that I felt like the only time I ever got to hold my own baby was when I was feeding him. They would also tell us he didn’t really need feeding when he quite clearly did, just because they didn’t want to let him go. At one point FIL even told us we are supposed to wait until DS is screaming before we feed him!

When DS was 4 days old, DH popped round to see his Grandad and invite him round to meet DS. He’d taken DS downstairs and left him asleep in his Moses basket and put some laundry on whilst I got dressed etc and then he went out. When I came downstairs FIL was sitting on the sofa holding DS, having taken him out of his basket. I knew he was due a feed but he seemed ok at the time and I didn’t want to be feeding him when DH and his GD got back, so I went in the kitchen and got the washing out of the machine. DH then text me to say GD had declined the invitation so I could go ahead and feed DS. I went in the front room and told FIL that GD wasn’t coming and I could see DS starting to root around wanting a feed, so I said I was going to feed him. FIL stood up and went to hand DS to me when I said “I’ll hang the washing out afterwards”. FIL sat back down with him and said “No, put the washing out now, you can feed him later” I said again that I wanted to feed him and reached out for him, but FIL actually put his arm out to stop me and in a really patronising voice said “Angelo, babies are hardy, you have to learn to leave them.” (To reiterate, he was 4 days old at this point.) at no point did he offer to put the washing out for me so I could feed DS... but that would have involved letting him go, wouldn’t it?!

Well, I did it. I put the fucking washing out. I cried the entire time, I felt so awful that I’d let FIL bully me into doing something utterly unimportant before feeding my hungry baby. I felt like an awful mother. Whilst I was outside DS started crying, so FIL actually shut the kitchen door so I wouldn’t hear him. By the time I was finished he was properly screaming and I was in flood of tears. I know I should have stood my ground but I was alone and exhausted and didn’t have it in me to argue with FIL in his own house. DH arrived just as I was taking DS upstairs to feed him. He was angry but decided not to say anything as he was grateful to FIL for not having a row with him after he “upset” MIL about the visitors thing. It felt to me like in that instance he was more concerned about not upsetting his parents than he was about his parents upsetting me.

A week after DS was born we had to go back to the hospital as I was concerned that my stitches had split. DH told MIL where we were going as it meant we were going to miss breakfast with them, BIL and his GF and DH’S GD but asked her not to say anything. When we got back she came out to the drive and asked how I was, saying she didn’t want to ask in the house in front of the others. Unfortunately FIL had no such concern for my dignity. The minute we got through the door he was in the hallway with his booming voice “how are your stitches Angelo, alright?” with everyone else sitting a few feet away in the living room. I was mortified. It was bad enough having to face DH’s whole family when I looked and felt like absolute shit, without them knowing all about the fucking stitches in my vagina...

When DS was about a month old PILs decided it was time to decorate the house for Christmas. DH, DS and I were sleeping in the converted attic bedroom at the top of the house and all the decorations were kept in the eaves storage cupboard, so we had to tidy the bedroom so they could get everything out. So we left DS to sleep in his Moses basket in the kitchen. Once again MIL decided to get him out and hold him instead. At some point he woke up but nobody bothered to let me know, and it somehow ended up being me who helped DH and FIL haul boxes of baubles up and down two flights of stairs while MIL cuddled my baby in the kitchen and sang Christmas songs to him.

Looking back now I feel like the first few weeks of DS life are completely overshadowed by all this for me. I feel like nobody gave a crap about me once he was born or how all this made me feel... from the minute we got back from the hospital I had to share my baby with PILs and I really worry about how it’s affected my bond with him. At one point I even thought that DS wouldn’t know I was his mummy as MIL seemed to spend so much more time holding him than I did! I honestly think it’s a miracle I didn’t get PND, especially since I’ve had trouble with depression in the last.

I know that letting us live in their house was incredibly generous of my PILs, they are essentially decent people (once you get past them being typical Daily Mail reading Leave voters) and I am grateful to them for the kindness they showed us. The thing is, I don’t know how to get past the feelings of pain and resentment that their behaviour in those few weeks have left me with. I dread every visit from them, and would happily never set foot in their house again as long as I live. I know I need to get past it, but how? What do I do?

[Hugtheduggee]

Most of the things you mention I think were well intentioned from them, and more because of your own anxieties if I'm honest.

Even the laundry one, my understanding from your post is that you were crying about not feeding your 'hungry' baby well before your baby was hungry enough to start crying. Getting a job done, whilst you have opportunity, even if baby is a bit rooty, but not upset, doesn't make you a bad mum, and your pil may have been thinkimg he was helping by letting you get on, and helping baby slightly space feeds. Bear in mind he comes from a generation where feeds were every 3/4 hours, is a totally different mentality - even b if he knows you are demand feeding. My parents know I demand feed, but their instincts if they think baby hasn't gone long enough since previous feed is too try to distract, pace etc. Its as much ingrained in their brains to try to space out feedings, as us putting babies down on their backs etc is. They'll get there, but probably not in a few days, do they may not have meant anything malicious by it.

Your baby will not miss out by being cuddled by more people, and will most certainly know who it's mum is. Things like them taking baby out of the car seat as soon as you got home could be them being possessive or equally, them giving you a chance to get in, take your coat off and make a cuppa. And I see no reason why you shouldn't be assisting with Christmas decorations - it clearly wouldn't have been the only opportunity to sing Christmas songs to your baby, but given they you single it out, makes me think that it was a one off.

Its going to be hard living with in laws, especially when having a first baby. I'm sorry it wasn't what you wanted, but I don't think anyone was particularly in the wrong, it's just a difficult wet of circumstances.

[messolini9]

The only thing that seems remotely 'wrong' is the laundry bit and that's only because someone SHOULD have done it for you.

Spectacular point-missing here.
Not because someone should have done the laundry for her - because FiL bullied her, stopped her from feeding her baby, & physically prevented her from taking the baby back from him.

Angelo - had you not been exhausted post-parturition & constrained by the fact of occupying PiL's house, of course you would have been able to handle that small but nasty incident very differently.
I can understand the depth of your feelings & they are justified ...
however, because you cannot change what happened, I hope you will find some relief in changing the present dynamic.

I agree with PP about counselling to ensure you continue staving off PND - considering your previous bout of depression, bloody well done holding it together in very stressful circumstances.
Also to build up the kind of resiliance & self esteem which will eventually allow you to float serenely past PiL's ridiculousness.
What a turn-up it would be if you found a way to neutralise them - especially FiL, or laugh at them, instead of allowing them to shut you down!
In the meantime, there is a technique you could try which might help you a great deal when you have to manage PiL's intrusiveness & control around your baby.

You are not living with them any longer I think? - (they may be slightly less entitled to dismiss you in your own home?) - start using the Broken Record technique. Think of a short simple phrase that gives the control back to you & just keep repeating it:

e.g. FiL orders you to do laundry before you are 'allowed' to feed your baby -
"I decide when the baby is fed FiL - I'm his mother"
whatever he responds, whatever argument he thinks he can use to put you back in what he thinks is your place - you just repeat, repeat, repeat that phrase, while taking your baby from him.

If he decides to be an embarrassing twat again, like with the shouting about your stitches - FFS refuse to be 'mortified'!
"Oh dear FiL, nobody needs to hear about my stitches, what ARE you like?!"
& when he blusters, because I'm guessing no one ever calls him out - THAT is your Broken Record phrase for him "what are you like?!" - again, again, & again.

Fuck what he thinks of you.
Every time you feel too overwhelmed by him to USE YOUR VOICE you are allowing him to diminish you.
Using these stock, pre-learned phrases will reduce your stress becaue you already know what you are going to say & will not need to engage in whatever argument or orders FiL thinks he can give you.
"It's not up for discussion FiL - my baby, my rules".
Repeat repeat, repeat.

Take back your power Angelo.
Now you are under your own roof I am sure things are going to feel so much easier.
You might also find this helpful - www.amazon.co.uk/Woman-Your-Own-Right-Assertiveness/dp/070437269X/ref=pd_sbs_14_t_0/259-2509502-9622713?psc=1&pf_rd_p=e44592b5-e56d-44c2-a4f9-dbdc09b29395&_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_wg=ZGZqs&pf_rd_r=K42FWNVV8QFHAWZDX00G&pd_rd_i=070437269X&pd_rd_w=5hWg8&refRID=K42FWNVV8QFHAWZDX00G&pd_rd_r=53b95460-e0b2-478f-84b7-92257378dbe8&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

[messolini9]

The real problem here was having a baby whilst living with PIL. That's a recipe for disaster and no one on the planet would have persuaded me to do that

Oh, what a "helpful" comment, @Casino218

It's nice that you didn't need to be under your PiL's roof.
No need to be quite so smug about it.

You have no idea what circumstances brought about OP's need to accept living at her PiL's.

[Casino218]

No because she didn't say why. Most people would be under strain in that situation that's all I'm saying! Don't be so touchy!

[Princessbanana]

You are a saint, I personally would have killed them long ago!😂

[MabelCloth]

Oh, OP, I completely sympathise.

I don’t know how you came to be living with your ILs for the birth, but I remember how I wanted / needed my own little private nest in that first newborn week.

Yes, GOs get excited but they showed no sensitivity at all. Your FILs behaviour around the washing was patronising and outrageous. Their repeated lifting the baby from the basket was outrageous after you asked them not to.

And many years on I will not forgive my DH for telling one of his relatives about my stitches, and to hear her doing theatrical ‘OMG OMG!’. As you say, our vaginas are not suddenly public property for discussion just because we have had a baby.

People need to listen and learn from your experience, OP, for when we have grandkids of our own.

As a new Mum I loved showing off my baby, I didn’t want anyone excluded, but I couldn’t cope with anyone taking over.

Post birth you want your baby close as close. It is only hours, 48, 72 HOURS since they were actually in our bodies. Our instinct is total protection. So it creates anxiety and unease if we feel we are losing control by someone else intervening.

People should not minimise or brush off how you feel.

Sending

[messolini9]

Tbh why would you have a baby when you live with you're pil that set up was never going to work. You're married you need to have your own independence away from the pils.

Needing to have it & actually being in the financial position to achieve it are 2 different things @Luckystar20. How you have reached adulthood without learning that is beyond me, but I'm happy for your privilege.

House yourself, set your own boundaries and appreciate what they did right rather than dwelling on mainly imaginary ways you've been 'wronged'. Set a plan of action: get your own home and pay your own bills.
If ONLY the OP had some way of dreaming this plan up for herself @InfiniteSheldon! FFS it's clear from her initial post that she's aware of all this - do you seriously imagine that you telling her what she already damn well knows will magically make money appear?

Such scolding tones, so unnecessary.
OP hasn't done anything wrong except get walked on - she's thinking about how to change that hence posting here, but you think this is the moment to wipe your feet on her? Nice.

[messolini9]

and actually snapped at fil when he said he didn’t want a take away but home cooked
Bloody good for you @MsTSwift!

OP - take note.
Ms Swift ticked her FiL off for being a knob.
Her world did not end.

You too can do this :)

[messolini9]

Be kind to yourself and let your experience be a lesson not a punishment.

That's a startling & excellent phrase, thank you @Frenchw1fe

[Lindy2]

I may have missed it in the thread but why were you living with your PIL? It's difficult being in someone else's home. I expect they were over excited by having a new grandchild and by you living in their home got the boundaries blurred regarding who was supposed to actually looking after baby and who should be responsible for what

None of it actually seems that terrible to me. More over enthusiasm for inviting guests (into their own house) and unsolicited advice/help that didn't match what you wanted.

It must have been quite a change in their day to day life to suddenly have 2 more adults plus a newborn in their home. I don't imagine that was completely easy for them to adjust to either or know exactly how to behave. I struggle with house guests for more than a day or so and that's without babies being involved.

Hopefully you are in your own home now and can parent how you wish. I would try to move on from these issues and perhaps focus on being lucky enough to have supportive inlaws willing to freely open their home to you, even if they don't get everything completely right or to your liking.

[Freezingold]

Not least because it made me feel like a vessel who delivered their precious grand baby/niece and therefore I was no longer relevant or important
@GlummyMcGlummerson sorry you had to go through that. I had that too from ex in laws. They are still awful and now completely and utterly ignore me but are almost kidnapping my child as they coo and cuddle - I find it very threatening!

[AngeloMysterioso]

To answer a few points-

We don’t live there anymore thank fucking God - we moved out when DS was 6 weeks old.

• It was a sunny and unseasonably warm early November day when the laundry incident occurred
  

• We were living with PILs because our house purchase fell through at the point of exchange when I was 32 weeks pregnant. We had sold our flat and had literally nowhere else to go.
  

• I know I should have stood up for myself. I know that. I hate myself for not doing it. My only excuse was that I’d had a baby 3 days earlier after a long, exhausting and painful labour, I was utterly done in and just didn’t have it in me to have a row with my father in law whilst I was living in his house. At that particular time DH wasn’t physically present to intervene on my behalf, he got back home after I’d got DS back from FIL.
  

• DH also knows he should have stood up for me but he felt that had to pick his battles and like me, didn’t feel right arguing with his parents whilst we were in their home. I let him know (then and several times since) how let down I felt by his silence over the issue.

[Cohle]

I don't want to be dismissive because you're clearly very distressed by what happened, but I do think staying in someone else's house makes it much harder to enforce boundaries.

Why not try and focus on what a lovely thing you IL's did for you giving you a home when you were about to have a baby and had "literally nowhere else to go", rather than getting quite so hung up on every time they held your baby when you'd rather they hadn't?

[AngeloMysterioso]

It’s not so much the fact that they held him when I didn’t want them to- it’s that they held him so much that he was pretty much only in my arms when I was feeding him.

[ChrisPrattsFace]

You’ll find on Mumsnet that it’s half will agree with you, regardless of their relationship with their in-laws. And half will say you should appreciate having those people around you blah blah blah.

I agree with you, I have an incredibly over baring MIL and had worse interactions that shadowed my first weeks with my little boy.
I don’t have any advice on how you get over it, I’ve had counselling it was that bad but I’m still bitter. But you’re not alone.

[Ivyr0se]

You really need your own place. A lot of what you described doesn't sound unreasonable, just kind of annoying.

The lack of control over your new baby is frustrating. Your FIL not giving you the baby is unacceptable.

But the biggest problem is that you need to move out and be your own family, not just an extension of theirs.

Also dont be afraid to say no. You put you and baby first. Rest in your room. Don't put off feeding the baby for a visitor or housework.

[Ivyr0se]

Sorry I didn't see your update.
Its great that you have your own place now.

Try writing down what happened, the first few weeks of a new baby can be very difficult. Get it out if your system.

Try and focus on enjoying him now.
Don't let your focus on your IL's actions ruin this stage too.

Congratulations on your baby, it is difficult yet wonderful.

[MissSmith1]

Problem is that it's not until you have a baby that you Know how protective you will feel and how emotional. And it's not until you have a baby that you realise how traumatic or exhausting the delivery can be.

[Freezingold]

I guess how you cope with it now is...
Do you have good boundaries with them now?
Can your relationship recover?
Would MIL be at all receptive to you telling her how you felt?

[nowayhose]

I'm afraid I don't agree that FIL 'forced' the OP to do anything. Yes, he showed the OP no regard and was an ignorant, gobby twat, but he did not take the OP physically and 'force' her to do anything.

OP, I get that staying in your PIL home makes you feel vulnerable and makes you feel you need to do as they say, but you need to be able to actually TELL them when they overstep and let them know that this is YOUR baby, and you'll be doing things YOUR way.

Both you and your DH need to sit down and have an honest conversation about boundaries and that you are not happy with things the way they are. You need to speak up and so does your DH.

I'm afraid it can take a while to overcome the old roles of parent and child, and for you and your DH to become the parent of your own DC, and unfortunately, while you are living in your PIL's house, this can take a few awkward but honest conversations first.

I'm quite sure you will feel more empowered and maternal once you start speaking up for yourself and your child, and you will be a wonderful mum ! :) But first, big girl pants on and a serious conversation with you, your DH and the PIL.

[nowayhose]

Sorry, just saw your update. Glad to hear you have your own place now.

In time, as other posters have said, you will feel less upset about the whole sorry time at PIL's, but it will take time.

I'm not a great believer in counselling, but if you feel it could help it's a great idea.

I do also feel sorry for all the new parents nowadays as it seems that everyone is striving for the ideal first few days/ weeks/ months, but in reality, very few people can actually achieve everything they had planned and hoped for, and then new parents really feel as if they have 'lost' something which they can never get back. It's so upsetting that these lovely new parents feel like this.

I'm wishing you all the best x

[GrumpyHoonMain]

It’s not so much the fact that they held him when I didn’t want them to- it’s that they held him so much that he was pretty much only in my arms when I was feeding him.

But considering newborn is just feeding or sleeping when they aren’t pooing, you had him for most of the time. I think your post is becoming very ‘woe is me’ right now. The advice right now is for Dads / DPs to nappy change / do baths in the early days to build up their bond and for mums to feed. So most mums would have had a similar situation to you - you’re just bitter that instead of DP his parents did all that. But in the early days my sil had midwives do all of that plus cuddling for both her kids for two months (she just got to feed and never cuddle / hold as they were too small) and she isn’t bitching about it on MN. She got on with it . I get that you feel hurt but you do need to let this go now. Go to counselling if you must.

[EngagedAgain]

Yes she 'could' have said no, but having just literally had her first baby would not be feeling at her strongest.

[Odoreida]

OP, I utterly sympathise. I'm still annoyed at my mother for inviting random relatives to the hospital and my house without asking me first. I had no way of refusing - I had PND, was constantly in tears, and felt completely frozen. Yet she kept inviting people. I've got over it now (my son is 9) but I don't trust my mother to respect my boundaries and never will. So she's lost that relationship with me. I have a wonderful relationship with my son and that's what matters. Concentrate on your baby and your husband.

[Equanimitas]

I let him know (then and several times since) how let down I felt by his silence over the issue.

I hope you've stopped doing this. It doesn't really need saying repeatedly, and it will seriously mess up your relationship if you keep dragging it up.