To think that the C of E church should not take a step back in time

[2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney]

So the bishops have made a statement that sex belongs only in a heterosexual marriage not in a gay relationship, marriage or otherwise , not in a civil partnership and not outside marriage. WTF
In an age where many have turned their back on religion aibu to think that they will alienate even more people
IMO the c of e used to be a broad welcoming church: it has become more and more conservative and evangelical in the last 10 years I don’t recognise it anymore.

I really couldn’t give a shit what a bunch of old men in dresses think of my sex life.

Having babies when you aren't married is often a bad idea anyway. Having lots of sex outside marriage is not necessarily a recipe for happiness either.

That's obviously not the basis of their objection to sex within a gay marriage, and there won't be any evidence yet about the family stability of opposite sex civil partnerships as they're so new - there's no reason at all to suppose they're not as committed as marriage.

The CofE (and many other denominations) has surely lost all its erstwhile self-appointed 'moral authority' to have any say on what consenting adults do (and especially those within legal, committed partnerships), given the appalling history of child abuse and cover ups of it perpetrated by the highest levels.

That is one view. Also I thought the Catholic church had a worse record than the C of E on child sex abuse as indeed having boarding schools and sadly many a family home - most child abuse is people's own homes sadly.

I think that CofE bishops are entitled to believe whatever they want to believe. The rest of us can choose to ignore them as we think fit.

Personally, I don't look to the church to teach me the difference between right and wrong. I have a conscience, and I use it. In this particular example, my conscience tells me that sex between consenting adults is fine, regardless of sexuality or marital status, as long as both participants are free agents (that is, not betraying anyone else's trust).

If people don't like the church's teachings, they can choose not to follow them.

I understand that sentiment, but it works both ways. 'Sex belongs only in heterosexual marriage' isn't saying that only those who follow their religion should live in this way, it's being applied as a blanket statement, it's saying that everyone should live according to THEIR beliefs. That's the problem.

The other problem is that this is the established state religion, with guaranteed reserved seats in Parliament, and paid to run 4,700 state schools that many children will have to attend regardless of faith if they want to access state education.

Their abhorrent views affect the rest of us.

Also I thought the Catholic church had a worse record than the C of E on child sex abuse

As I said, 'many denominations' - do any have clean hands on this? (the URC doesn't either, btw, in case anyone mistook my comments below as a ringing endorsement)

@bridgetreilly

This is actually nonsense. There is no shared financial commitment between any of the provinces of the Anglican Communion. They are all independent legally and financially.

There is a central organization that is funded by contributions from assessments on the members. That's how activities like the Lambeth conference get funded. Have a look a the whole thing, but in particular page 18, Donations.

www.anglicancommunion.org/media/336218/acc-annual-report-2017.pdf

Sure. Total annual income from Anglican provinces? £1.4 million.

If you really think that sort of money is more than a drop in the ocean compared to the total annual income of the Anglican provinces themselves (let alone whatever proportion of it comes from TEC), I don't know what to say. But I promise, the ACC could manage to find the shortfall without blinking.

What is not happening is TEC somehow propping up other provinces financially. That is just not how the Anglican Communion works.

The big issue is that the Bishops are mainly out of step with the average Vicar and the Laity in the Church.

But then I was horrified by what a prominent Bishop said during a talk to my DD's sixth form recently. She massively misjudged her audience - although as it wasn't an Urban school they mainly didn't understand her references to "Chicken Shops", they thought she mean Nandos.

What do you want them to say? Not the only religion to say that.
You're not obliged to believe, and if you do believe - well, God has given you free will.

No I don’t believe but I feel very sorry for

Anyone who does believe and lives with someone

Anyone who does believes who is in a sexual relationship outside marriage

Anyone who does believe who is gay Being told they must remain celibate for their life

Anyone who believes who is a gay marriage being told that it must be a celibate one

Ditto anyone in a gay partnership

Anyone who believes who is planning or had a heterosexual civil partnership recently

So a lot of people really who thought they could belong to the church which doesn’t recognise their relationship as a valid one.

Considering the c of e was started by a king who was fed up with his first wife and I think got the second pregnant before off loading her.

This with bells on. Religion is outdated.

Anina1andLea2
Wow!

I take it then that you won’t eat shellfish

Leviticus 11:9-10 Tell Us About Eating Shellfish? ... You shall regard them as detestable; you shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall detest their carcasses. Everything in the waters that has not fins and scales is detestable to you

Or sausages
Leviticus 11 You may eat any animal that has a split hoof completely divided and that chews the cud. ... And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you

Or wear some clothes
Deuteronomy 22:1 You shall not wear cloth of wool and linen mixed together

Or think for yourself
Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths

Well good for you, some of us live in the real world

Now, get over it.

Most people nowadays have got over the idea that their ethics should be dictated by a book dating from the Bronze Age to ~2K years ago. The more the churches persist in focussing on things like sex between committed pairs of adults the more people will 'get over it'.

We probably wouldn't give a moments thought to what the CofE says if it wasn't the state church, with access to power structures and schools. One of the things which made some of its sex abuse coverups particularly bad was the influence wielded on its behalf by 'the establishment'.

And another thing Anina1 I have heard it said that the correct translation of the verse you are presumably quoting about a man shall not lie down with a man I was poorly translated from the Ancient Greek and should read a man shall not lie down with a boy Ie Paedophilia
Still the c of e was ok with that ....

Op the Old Testament rules were set for the Jewish religion. The New Testament was set for Christians with the OT for extra reference.

If you read the NT you will find Christian rules over what to eat and wear are no longer applicable, Jesus teaches that only if it causes others to stumble in their faith should you not eat those things in front of them (something like that anyway).

If you’re expecting any religion to deliver common sense, you’re looking in the wrong place.

Most people nowadays have got over the idea that their ethics should be dictated by a book dating from the Bronze Age to ~2K years ago

Exactly. The most annoying is people who interpret the text to conform with modern ethics and values. You can only twist the meaning so far, just accept your religion is fundamentally homophobic and misogynistic.

Socks
I agree with you. I was quoting OT paragraphs because that is where Anina1 derives her code from
And then says the whole of the bible OT and NT should be regarded as the truth.

So don’t get me started on Genesis and the creation

I suspect the bishops are less interested in correct translations than in contemporary cultural attitudes towards homosexuality across the Anglican communion, which does not just include England and the US but many other cultures.

I understand the argument that the CofE is a state church so is not in the same position as the Roman Catholic Church or a Presbyterian Church but your disagreement there is really with the government and it's failure to separate church and state. That is what should not be acceptable in this day and age.

Yes, and he is allowed to think that. But he did not, in fact, make the law and so he does not get to impose that view on anyone.

He is a leading figure in the state church who has a seat on the house of lords. He wants ssm to be illegal for anyone regardless of religion and compared it to something a dictator would do.

Why is anyone actually bothered what someone else does in the bedroom (or other places) as long as it is not hurting someone else. So medieval.

For goodness sake ... climate change, endangered species, child marriages, domestic abuse and more take your pick.