Discrimination against working people?

[Ceci03]

AIBU to think this is discrimination? Have just signed up with a dentist and was lucky to get accepted as an NHS patient. But the receptionist said evening, early morning, and Saturday appointments are only for private patients. Seems unfair. I work in a place where I have to take annual leave for dentist and doctor appointments. Seems unfair but AIBU. Seeing as fulltime workers pay tax which goes to fund the nhs right?

Seems a bit unfair but I agree with others that discrimination is an accusation too far. It’s not a protected characteristic for one thing.

I don’t know if you can find another nhs dentist? Ours does take nhs appointments at 9 (maybe 8.30?) or so which could accommodate a late start at work if employers are a bit flexible?

You are deluded. The problem is entirely with your employer and more likely you. Employers treat good employees well and regardless of policy make allowances for them. You are coming across as militant and I expect that is why you are made to take annual leave.

Sorry but most dentists will only open 9 to 5. I guess the private patients are paying extra for the surgery to open out of hours.
It's not discriminatory.

You are deluded. The problem is entirely with your employer and more likely you. Employers treat good employees well and regardless of policy make allowances for them. You are coming across as militant and I expect that is why you are made to take annual leave.

That's rubbish. Many employers insist on treating everyone the same, in line with policies, in order to avoid claims of discrimination.

Maybe the government should legislate that employers have to give paid time off for medical and dental appointments and then there would be no need for a popularity competition at work.

The reality is that yes, if you have the money, you can pay for a better standard of care, and part of that is convenience.

So you can go private for dental, you can go private for medical care, say if you have cancer, and bypass the waiting lists.

It may not be 'fair'. But it is reality, and pretty much always has been.

It's not allocating appointments on the basis of wealth, it's allocating appointments on the basis of what the client is prepared to pay. Some of those clients will not be wealthy - they'll be desperate, and will prioritise their dental care, and go without in other areas to afford it.

Dentists, just like any other service provider, are entitled to seek to maximise their profits.

Where I come from, all dental care once you leave school, is private. There is no public provision.

Also most employers will allow their employees to take a couple of hours off fir medical appointments. I think the fault here is with your employers not the dentist.

This - it's a broken system from the top down really. I guess the british people get what they vote for really. Is this what people want. It makes me sad sad

Your employer is the bigger problem imo

Time (to be worked back or unpaid) for medically necessary appointments, like the dentist, should be something that can be fitted in on occasions

In DH's work you get 3 hours back twice a year if you show proof of a dental check up/appointment. They say they lose much, much less time to toothache and emergency appointments by encouraging people to go. They do similar for eye tests

Hang on OP, you haven't lived in the UK for 40 years and now you have come back you will have lots of dental treatment on the NHS? Doesn't seem overly fair on all the people living here for year and years and paying their tax. Did they not have dentists where you lived for 40 years? Also the rich people you have such a problem with pay the vast majority of the tax that funds the NHS.

I say again, welcome to a capitalist society under a Conservative government. Everything is "allocated on the basis of wealth" because that's what the majority of people in the UK voted for.

Yes, that's becoming very clear to me. I was so hopeful when I moved here. I looked at things like the NHS and coming from a very inequitable society, where rich people are treated totally different to poor people in relation to healthcare, and where Britain is held up as a 'shining light' for an equitable system, it's just not, is it.

And no, memberofseven, I'm not unusual I've found out - many employers do not allow time out for medical or dental appointments. See post above from a poster who has had no annual leave for 3 years as its all been used up by medical stuff. Seems unfair, but there you go. That's where I live now. NO point moaning, right.

I recently paid £62 for two fillings and a root canal treatment, on NHS. I was quoted £400 by my private dentist, who didn’t even notice the fillings that needed to be done.

I had a far superior service from my NHS dentist.

And I’m also about to have a crown fitted, on the NHS.

For this service, I’d take it any time or day of the week.

We are very lucky to have it. So I’ll go when they’ll have me!

Well I have never worked anywhere, regardless of policy, where I wouldn't be allowed to get in slightly later or leave a bit early for a medical appointment. It would be frowned upon if I took an 11 o clock appointment and then didn't turn up at all until lunch time but no one would say a thing if I didn't turn up until 9.30 having had the first appointment of the day (and they knew where I was).

It's dreadful that rich people get stuff in society that poor people can't afford. I went into my local Porsche dealer the other week, but they said I couldn't have one, because I only had enough money for a 2nd hand Ford Fiesta. And when I complained, they threw me out and threatened to call the police unless I buggered off and stopped wasting their time.

It's discrimination I tells ya!

Why should rich people get stuff that poorer people can't. You'd almost be forgiven for thinking we live in a capitalist society where the Conservatives won a recent election comfortably.

Like private dentistry didn't exist under Labour! If anything, NHS dentistry became more and more scarse under messers Brown and Blair.

The rich don't get preferential treatment. Those who are willing to pay a bit more get preferential treatment. They are not necessarily one and the same. NHS is (in theory, although with dentistry, not always in practice) is available for all. Private is there as a business if you want it.

Stop trying to blame the dentists, capatalism, those who see dental health as worth paying a bit more for, and god forbid the successful for your inflexible boss.

Maybe given you regular dentist visits a cash repayment plan or monthly payment option is a more suitable option for you going forward.

MAybe dentists should re-consider their working hours

Maybe you should reconsider yours? My friends a dentist and she works 8-6 Monday-Friday and every other Saturday.

If I say to my boss "I have a dentist appointment at 8am. I should be in by 9:30- is they ok?"
He'll say "yes of course" or "that day isn't really suitable for x reason but happy for it to be any day next week".

Just because you and your employer are awkward doesn't mean dentists are discriminating against you

Your assumption that people who have a private dentist are rich is false. Not everyone who has a private dentist is rich. Very far from it. Sometimes there is no other option.

Cecil03 Nothing is "special" about rich people ,but their ability to pay more money for essentially the same service you get at a reduced rate makes them so! Just life Im afraid .You are lucky to be seen at a NHS Dentist really .Many areas dont have access to a NHS service at all .A van had to be sent to parts of Manchester ,as so many children and some parents had dental problems and couldnt get care! We are with an NHS service too and take Appointments in the morning ,Our last Dentist treated both private and NHS and we were happy with Afternoon Appointment times then

You do know that no dentistry is free unless you have medical exemption, don't you? You have to pay for your treatment.

My private dental care plan is £20 a month. The majority of the country could afford it. It's not just for "the rich". I live in a crowded houseshare and work longer hours than 9-5. I don't consider myself particularly wealthy or part of some mystical private-dental-going elite.

We've been unable to get an NHS dentist at all - supposed to be at least one I spent months trying but when you ring they haven't taken any NHS on for years. We were lucky to get kids taken on as NHS only done if we went private.

We pay monthy for a private scheme - still struggle to get appointments we can all get to though.

We couldn't afford private orthodontist work on DD1 luckily she qualifies for NHS - downside all the appointments are in work and school time and it all during GCSE years.

Most employers I've had let you get early or late appointments if the time is made up.

In other threads I've actually suggested that all GP's should do this. Have half their appointments for paying patients, who then get to choose the most convenient appointments, so they're getting something extra for their money. The idea is to introduce some market discipline into appointment-making without taking away the option of a free appointment for people who really need it. It would also raise some extra funds to address the GP shortage.

The wait would be longer for a free appointment, so anyone who isn't on the breadline would probably decide that it's not such a terrible imposition to pay a fraction of what they might pay a hairdresser, to see a doctor, now, rather than in a week or three's time.

The amount the GPs would charge for paid appointments would be fine-tuned so that 50% of people thought it was worth paying, so by construction they would be what was deemed worthwhile by that particular GP's patients.

memberofseven

A)there are a lot of bad employers out there who barely give the legal minimum let alone more on top

B)getting to work for 9.30 after the first appointment assumes that you work 15 minutes away from the Dr/dentist and that they were on time

C)see my post about phoning gp surgery at 8am for any appointment, even routine. A routine GP appointment might well mean taking a few hours off work, possibly the whole day, depending on what time is available. Then add in parents needing time off for children's Dr and dentist appointments too.

D)many working people in this country are at massive disadvantage when it comes to accessing services. They don't earn enough to pay privately or to take unpaid leave but aren't available during office hours as they would be if unemployed or retired.

So really this is just because it's slightly inconvenient to you op and you feel entitled? surely just making appointments as early or late as possible and make time up or only need a half day? Or, pay for private cover, it's really not much each month and gets you better treatment options. I've had it for years through employers and no, it's not 'for the rich' lots of companies offer it.

Your bigger issue is having to use annual leave for these things, most employers I've come across will just agree you make time up, again that's for everyone not just what you have declared as the evil elite.

Would you be happier with a communist society?

Dentist practices are private businesses some happen to have a contract with the NHS to provide the NHS service. This contract does not pay well and is costly to maintain due to the paperwork involved. This is why so many dentists are ditching it - it simply doesn’t pay. There is simply no incentive to offer later appointments or weekends to NHS patients, it doesn’t pay and from a practice management point of view it is a pain in the neck. The problem is not the dentists refusing to do the out of hours work it’s a system that simply isn’t profitable for a private clinic to offer.

PettyContractor

That's a terrible idea. So, if you're one of the working poor tough shit to you? You can't have an appointment if you need it because we've given half away to private patients so there are none left? That's disgusting.

Well I am by no means rich - not even remotely!! I work full time and haven't been able to get into an NHS dentist for years so I pay a premium for all my dental care. I don't get paid time off for appointments and actually I do think it's fair that those paying a lot more should get convenient appointments. If I was as lucky as you and got into an NHS dentist then I honestly wouldn't complain about having to book time off to be seen. I certainly don't think it's discrimination. The problem is with your employer making you take annual leave. You should at least be allowed to make the time up.