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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Advice on inheritance disputes

999 replies

Ilovechinese · 20/01/2020 14:02

Hi I'm just wondering if anyone on here has been to court to contest a will and if so how long did it take to get to court and what the process is. I'm going through this at the minute (well not got to court yet) but have a caveat in place to stop probate.

OP posts:
Ilovechinese · 25/01/2020 21:58

I am aware court costs are very high and they have warned me that and if it is too much and not likely I will win then I wont do it but I have to at least find out. I owe it to my Dad. He deserves justice.

OP posts:
Ilovechinese · 25/01/2020 21:59

@steff13 moby dick?

OP posts:
Mumdiva99 · 25/01/2020 22:05

@ilovechinese moby dick a very very long book.....

(Please listen to every single poster on this thread....get councilling not revenge.)

florascotia2 · 25/01/2020 22:10

I'm afraid to say, OP that Moby Dick is indeed a very long book about a man with an obssessive quest ....

steff13 · 25/01/2020 22:10

I was actually referring to the theme of Moby Dick, seeking revenge regardless of the cost. This inheritance seems to be the OP's "white whale."

Ilovechinese · 25/01/2020 22:12

This is not about revenge its about justice

OP posts:
Juniper45 · 25/01/2020 22:18

You are either being deliberately obtuse or you’re just not the sharpest scalpel in the kidney dish.

You definitely need to take some one a lot brighter than you into the solicitors with you. You don’t appear to have even the most basic grasp of logic and keep wailing about your dad’s money. It wasn’t his money. It was your mother’s. If he wanted you to have his money he’d have left it to you. Everyone making a will knows that people can change their minds after they die and that’s what Will trusts are for. If your mother wanted you to have an equal share to the son who looked after her in her last months she would have left it to you. She didn’t want to. You probably know that but the dollar signs and spite are obscuring your sense.

The solicitor who wrote the will and met her, spoke to her and judged her capacity will give evidence that she had capacity. You have ZERO evidence to show otherwise. You can’t just stamp your foot and whine it isn’t fair for this to be overturned because you think you are “owed” more. It wasn’t your decision to make! You don’t sound like you liked her much anyway but you wanted to benefit financially.

Your greed combined with an inability to understand that this was NEVER your money, no matter how much you earmarked it for your future will cost you.

You’ve had a lot of free, and extremely sound professional advice here and you still don’t seem to be able to grasp it. You need to take someone who does understand plain English to go with you, who can then get it through your head later in words of one syllable.

Upsideandundergarments · 25/01/2020 22:19

OP, I am very sorry for your loss and the injustice or perceived injustice that makes it so much worse. I know you are trying to fight for what your dad would have wanted but I can only echo everyone else's sentiments that it will very, very likely leave you much worse off financially and the time and money would be better spent looking after yourself.

I would also say that this is such a lesson as to why people should be open and honest about their wills while alive. I know my parent's wills are unequal. One of my siblings has a relatively minor disability but enough that it has impaired their ability to start work, climb the career ladder, etc. My parents have always lived by not equal but fair and in this case, the additional money would put him on a more even footing with my other siblings and allow him to continue private physical therapy that he relies on. We all completely get it and agree.

Hopefully, it won't matter for a long time as they are very fit and they said they will review if/ when things change. But by being honest, should the worst happen it won't be a shock or an 'oh did they love him more' moment as we know, understand and fully support the reasons.

AuntyElle · 25/01/2020 22:22

OP, you’ve never actually addressed the possible effect on your children of this, even though lots of posters have asked about it.
If you are overwhelmed with anger that you can’t let go of - and you won’t even consider the counselling that could help you handle the upsetting experiences you’ve been through - then how do you think that will affect your children?

I’ve been through a hideous legal battle over a will (not initiated by me). The effect on my mental health was huge, and years later it still affects me. And that’s after a pretty ‘successful’ outcome. Even though I eventually ‘won’, I now wish I had walked away from it, although that would have been difficult.

Chocolate50 · 25/01/2020 22:28

@22Ilovechinese I am really interested in this thread as I think that my parents have removed me from their will (they haven't said as much but there's a few hints they've made that's making me wonder). I thought though that the case law position was clear in that someone in your position would be expected to win the case given your relationship I read of a case where a woman's father had said that she didn't want anything to do with him & that was the reason that he removed her from his will but in fact it was the other way around & the dad had rejected her from his life. The court apparently upheld her claim. I thought that this was the current position.
I'm so sorry though that you're going through this. I'm sorry that this has left you feeling so bad. I think that suggesting counselling is quite patronising so I'm not going to do that! I think that go to 2 lawyers to get a fair opinion? Unless you've already decided - in which case - What have you decided to do?

cabbageking · 25/01/2020 22:31

May I ask what your solicitor has already charged you for?

VanGoghsDog · 25/01/2020 22:32

Sadly, solicitors do take cases that have very little chance of winning. And they follow the client's wishes.

I represent employers at tribunal. I tell them honestly what their chances of winning are. They rarely want to settle and if they say they will go ahead despite the information I give them, of course I am going to go on and represent them, and give it my all. If I don't, someone else will!

You'd actually get a more honest appraisal from a no win, no fee solicitor because they were not take cases unless they think they are VERY winnable.

Funnily enough, the no win no fee solicitors in employment cases seem to push very hard for settlements.

AuntyElle · 25/01/2020 22:35

@Chocolate50, have you read the whole thread?

VanGoghsDog · 25/01/2020 22:38

The court apparently upheld her claim.

Are you sure that wasn't Scotland? There are different laws there.

My parents have excluded my sister from their will, so it's just me and my brother. As far as I know. I know they can change it. I've not told her. She night die first, who knows. Though it currently looks like my dad might die soon so then I can hopefully persuade my mum to split it three ways.
But even if none of that happens, my sister would have no grounds to contest it.

Ilovechinese · 25/01/2020 22:43

@chocolate50 what makes you think they have removed you from their wills? Have you had any disagreements and are you an only child? Was that case you spoke about in the UK? I always saw and spoke to my Mother regularly so there was no reason for her to do this. I have decided to wait until my solicitor reviews all the evidence and tells me what she thinks

OP posts:
Chocolate50 · 25/01/2020 22:45

Copied from website - could OP claim under the below provision act 1975???

If you want to exclude a child from your will, you may need to make your reasons clearer than ever – thanks to caselaw, there’s a stronger chance than ever that your wishes could be overruled, even if they are in your will.

What happened?
The case was brought in 2015 by one Heather Ilott against her mother, Melita Jackson, who passed away in 2004. Ms Ilott, an only child, became estranged from her mother at age 17 after leaving live with her boyfriend (now husband).

Ms Jackson never forgave her, and with her final will, created in 2002, she included a letter explaining her reasons to disinherit her daughter. She instead left her entire £486,000 estate to three animal charities.

After her mother’s death, Ms Ilott contested the will, on the grounds that Ms Jackson had not made “reasonable provision” for her.

The Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975 allows for family and dependants to apply for provision from the estate of someone who has passed away, if they can show that it is needed for their maintenance (and that the estate can provide for it).

Ms Ilott argued that she should receive a share of her mother’s estate. The courts agreed – she was initially awarded £50,000 back in 2007.

After having this ruling overturned, she took the case to the court of appeal, who ruled that Ms Ilott should receive £164,000, enough to buy her housing association home and leave her with £20,000 to supplement her and her husband’s income.

The case was then heard in the Supreme Court who overturned the decision by the Court of Appeal to increase her claim to £164,000, but upheld the original Courts decision to award her with £50,000.

How could this happen?
Melita Jackson left specific instructions for the executors of her estate to resist any attempts from her daughter to challenge the will. However, they were ultimately unable to prevent appeal judges from awarding a portion of the estate to Ms Ilott.

The judges decided that, despite her mother’s objections, Ms Ilott should receive some provision from the estate. Ms Ilott is a full-time mother of five children; she receives benefits, and has no pension. Her family’s only other source of income is from her husband’s work as a mechanic.

Judges said that Ms Jackson had “acted in an unreasonable, capricious and harsh way towards her only child”.

Another key factor behind the decision was the fact that Ms Jackson had “no connection” to the three charities who stood to benefit from the Will – Blue Cross, RSPB and the RSPCA.

Regardless of her mother’s wishes, Ms Ilott believes that her father, who died before she was born, would have wanted her to benefit from the estate. “This was money my mother inherited as a result of my father’s death and, regardless of how she felt about me, I strongly believe he would have wanted provision made for me,” she said.

Ilovechinese · 25/01/2020 22:48

@VanGoghsDog di you know why they have cut her out? You sound like a very decent person (unlike my brother) In wanting it split 3 ways instead of wanting it all for yourself. If only everyone was like you

OP posts:
Ilovechinese · 25/01/2020 22:49

@VanGoghsDog if your mother doesn't agree to split it 3 ways then you can just do it yourself after anyway cant you.

OP posts:
Herringbone31 · 25/01/2020 22:51

@Chocolate50

That case in very different to the OP case.

Ilovechinese · 25/01/2020 22:52

@Chocolate50 yes my solicitor said if I cant make the will invalid then I will be able to claim under reasonable grounds of financial provision and also mentioned the case of heather ilott and said that has set the precedent for other cases.

OP posts:
Barbarella1 · 25/01/2020 22:53

chocolate many legal experts think that the outcome of that case was wrong it’s not legally binding on other cases anyway.

Chocolate50 · 25/01/2020 22:54

@43Ilovechinese I don't know for sure that they've removed me but yes there has been someone else in the family that's caused problems between us & although I'm always pleasant it's changed things between us. And I think they think I'm secure financially (we aren't that we'll off really but we're ok - ish). I have one sibling but I believe that they've left my sibling some and skipped me to gift to my children. I would rather they told me & was straight about it but hard to approach the subject - you know 'about your last will and testament...'!!

Barbarella1 · 25/01/2020 22:55

No OP it hasn’t set a precedent

Soontobe60 · 25/01/2020 22:55

It seems to me that you've selected the extracts from that link that suit you and left out those bits that don't. The main point is that the person disputing the will was provided with evidence early on in the proceedings including a report of the solicitor who drew up the will, plus medical evidence that the deceased did have capacity to make the new will. Despite that they chose not to remove the caveat, forcing the defendant to take them to court. The will was upheld and because the challenger had been receipt of the evidence, they had to pay the defendants costs from the point they received the evidence.
Have you received any evidence from your brother yet?

Chocolate50 · 25/01/2020 22:55

@53Barbarella1 I was of the understanding that this is 'caselaw' & therefore enshrines the current position. I don't know though as I'm no expert.