Advice on inheritance disputes

[Ilovechinese]

Hi I'm just wondering if anyone on here has been to court to contest a will and if so how long did it take to get to court and what the process is. I'm going through this at the minute (well not got to court yet) but have a caveat in place to stop probate.

I am a solicitor and I used to deal with will disputes in a previous role. I can’t recall off the top of my head if a solicitor is required to give you a likelihood of success of a claim, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they do not have to. They do have to be transparent about costs.

Based on my experience and the information you have provided in your posts, I think you have very little chance of success, unfortunately.

Just found this:

Remove the appearance of undue influence. Another common method of challenging a will is to argue that someone exerted undue influence over the deceased family member. For example, if you are planning on leaving everything to your daughter who is also your primary caregiver, your other children may argue that your daughter took advantage of her position to influence you. To avoid the appearance of undue influence, do not involve any family members who are inheriting under your will in drafting your will. Family members should not be present when you discuss the will with your attorney or when you sign it. To be totally safe, family members shouldn't even drive you to the attorney.

Reading some of the posts I think there is misunderstanding about what has happened and whether you have been left anything at all.

It seems like this:

Your DM, a single mother of one DS, married your DF and they had more children, of which you are one.

Your DF died leaving everything to your DM with no provision made for you or your siblings,

Your DM has now died, leaving everything to the son she had before her marriage to your DF, and nothing to you and your siblings from her marriage to your DF.

You think she was coerced into making her Will by her DS who had been caring for her along with his partner.

You think this because they have been evasive and obstructive in providing information about the Will and the circumstances under which it was made.

Is that right?

Timewise roughly a year to 18 months to settle the issue. But each case brings their own peccadillos.

Love this thread.

OP: Comes on asking for advice
Loads of folk give advice
OP: You're all wrong, I'm ignoring you and you're all unkind

SMH.

But you WERE left some money, that's what people are struggling with. Your dad wanted you to each have a third, sadly he didn't ensure that happened. Your mum HAS left you some, the issue is that you barely saw her for two months, assumed a lot and have been left confused by her actions but you don't know why she chose to change the will. She might have wanted to recognise the care they gave her.

@furiouscheekyfucker I never said everyone was unkind, I appreciate some people have offered sympathy but still said they dint think I have much chance and not to proceed for my own good but some peoples posts have been unkind trying to insinuate that I am being greedy whilst they know I am grieving the loss if both my parents and only want us all to have the same equal (or at least more equal than it stands) amount.

@cabbageking what a year to 18 months before it gets to court?

Who said I barely saw her?!! I said I didnt see her as much as I would have liked to and woukd have done if she has been at her own home. I did still see and speak to her regularly.

@Myimaginarycathasfleas yes except they never married

OP, as I understand it from your posts the property owned by your parents was owned as beneficial joint tenants. Yes? In which case the property, on your father's death, passed by survivorship to your mother. The same is true of any joint bank accounts that they held.

You don't say whether probate was ever extracted in your father's estate? If all of the assets were joint then this may simply not have been needed.

So now we look at the joint Wills that were made by your parents. Was there ever a discussion about these Wills being mutual Wills? For example was there a conversation about not being able to change these Wills after the first death. Just because there was no mutuality clause in the Will does not mean that the Wills were not mutual.

Mirror Wills are not mutual Wills in most cases, however the 2017 case that I posted on earlier in this thread related to a case where the mother and father made Wills. It appears that there were discussions with the family that these Wills were intended to be mutual. From memory I think that dad died first and then the mother changed her Will to leave small legacies to her two daughter and the residue to grandchildren/other beneficiaries.

In that case, although there was no mutuality clause in the Wills the Judge deemed the Wills to have been mutual because there was evidence of this from the family/other witnesses who were around at the time.

www.stjohnschambers.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Mutual-Wills-the-case-of-Legg-and-Burton-v-Burton-and-others-1.pdf

OP, are you in the US? The text you quoted earlier is from a US website on Elder Law so unlikely to be much use to you if you are in the UK or Ireland.

OP you are making an assumption that a solicitor won't move forward with a case that has a low chance of success.

This is incorrect. A solicitor gets paid irrespective of the outcome. The only difference may be who pays them.

As has already been posted, if you proceed and fail there is a likelihood of you being liable not only for your costs but that of your brother.

You also mention other family members are encouraging you to contest the will. It's all very well for them to stir the pot, but they have no skin in this and unless they are proposing to pay your legal fees then you need to cancel out their "noise".

I don't think you are greedy. I think you rightly feel a strong sense of injustice, betrayal and hurt but I think that's clouding your judgement.

You talk about what the Judge's alarm bells being raised by your brothers behaviour - but it doesn't work like that. Ignore alarm bells - you could have a siren but it makes not one iota of difference if you can't categorically prove something.

Trying to prove your mother was manipulated will be virtually impossible. You say they cared for her to coerce her and save fees. Your brother says your mother changed her will in gratitude to them for looking after her in her final months...neither can "prove" their version in true but your brother unfortunately has what appears to be a valid will on his side.

The fact it's unfair to the younger children isn't relevant. Wills don't have to be fair.

The fact it's not what your father wanted is irrelevant. He had the opportunity to make his wishes known in his will and left his assets to your mother to dispose of how she wished.

Your mother made a new will at the end of her life - that's not unusual nor is the fact she changed her mind about how to dispose of her estate. She was within her rights to do this.

By all means speak to your solicitor but please be realistic about how much this is going to cost you and don't assume the solicitor has your best interests at heart.

I'm not a solicitor but have been involved in a family will dispute and based on what you have posted would suggest that your best chance is to threaten legal action to try and gain a settlement via mediation with your brother, but not to actually pursue it and hope he doesn't call your bluff.

The OP is unfortunately tied up in the grief and her feelings of injustice of her unpleasant mother which seems to have preceded her death. This is understandable although totally irrational and going to cause her grief.

What is less understandable is her idiot cheerleader Larrygrylls who seems to have zero professional experience but is encouraging her to embark on a path which will suck up every penny that she could have spent on her and her children’s future on a crazy path of action. She should feel ashamed.

Judges don’t like overturning validly made wills - public policy would render wills valueless if any aggrieved relative could have a pop at challenging them.

And I bet the lawyers are rubbing their hands if the OP is as unfocused, illogical and legally ignorant in real life as she appears on this thread. There’s lots of “it’s not fair” and raw emotion. With absolutely zero clinical analysis, understanding of the legal precendent and good judgement of the risk/ benefit evaluation.

OP I understand what you are saying about your Dad turning in his grave and wanting you to fight. But he would not have wanted you to bankrupt yourself and put your self through the emotional wringer that it is going to entail. I am sure he would rather you got on with looking after your dc and investing your time money and energy on them intead of a moral vendetta against your brother and his partner.

OP, this really resonated with me:

I ever wanted was fir my mum to love me and her grandchildren like other mums do

I wonder if perhaps this is as much about the perceived rejection as about the money?

I think sometimes when it comes to our parents, it's easy to feel that gifts or bequests are expressions of their love for us, and that part of your motivation is emotional, rather than financial. I know that this is how my friend and her DB felt when their father left his entire estate to his 2nd wife, and didn't even bequeath them a token gift or mention them in any way in his will.

You'll need a cool head to make the right decision about this.

Potentially bankrupt yourself or move on?
I know which I would choose.

@DeRigueurMortis you say that you have been involved in a family will dispute yourself. Could you please tell me a little more about what happened (only if you want to of course) like was you the one contesting or defending it and did it get to court if so how many court appearances and if it was successful ect thank you

@LakieLady yes I think you are right and it is more emotional than financial (although the money would be a great help to mine and my childrens life too) and yes it's definitely as if she is showing while her favourite us and how little we meant (,if this was truly what she wanted) but I can never be sure as the other side will never admit to pressuring her if they did will they so its just forever not knowing the truth but at least if the court overturns it as invalid I will know with quite certainty that she was put under undue influence or lacked capacity as so many on here have said they are si hard to get overturned so they wont do it without being sure she was made to do it and then I will know this was never what she really wanted and can grieve properly and try to move on with a piece of mind.

And there is yet another professional posting whose opinion you don’t acknowledge.

I'm sorry to keep harping on but what is the difference between what you have been given, and what you were expecting? Even just a rough figure will help people give better advice; if the difference is what an average court battle would cost, it's not really worth it x

OP be aware that if you consult a solicitor and ask their opinion on whether to proceed, they will very likely want to do some work on investigating the claim. This in itself could take months and cost thousands.

Take a step back. Yes’m they will want to recoup their costs but will do that by invoicing you at every step of the process. Unless you have insurance which agrees to cover this or a solicitor prepared to undertake a conditional fee agreement ( no win no pay) then you stand to lose a LOT of money.

I strongly suggest taking a break from this and consider the points made about your relationship with your mother. It’s a sad and difficult situation, no doubt any legal professional would agree but that does not mean you are right in the eyes of the law. And that’s what legal process is about. Not emotions, hearsay or what ‘looks bad’ but the letter of the law.

I’ve been through a long legal battle and it’s a hideous, stressful business.

I'm sorry to keep harping on but what is the difference between what you have been given, and what you were expecting?

I posted my understanding of what the OP was saying and she confirmed I was correct. I don't think she has had anything.