Advice on inheritance disputes

[Ilovechinese]

Hi I'm just wondering if anyone on here has been to court to contest a will and if so how long did it take to get to court and what the process is. I'm going through this at the minute (well not got to court yet) but have a caveat in place to stop probate.

OP - I haven't read the full thread, but I don't think Legal Aid is available for these things, and anyway it's subject to a very stringent financial eligibility check which, if you're thinking of paying in instalments, I suspect you'd fail anyway.

The solicitor would want to secure payment before the work is done. Could you afford £30k over 18 months? No solicitor who wants to stain business could deal payment until after the case unless you have a very strong case and are inevitably going to have the funds to pay at the end of proceedings.

*stain = stay in

I don't think you do have to prove your father's wishes because it is not relevant. Once he willed it your mother, it is gone and hers to do with as she wishes. The only possible avenue here, is was it as she wished? Was she coerced? Did she have testamentary capacity? I am caught up in a Will dispute. Only in my case my father added a codicil to his Will in hospital a week before he died leaving half of an additional property to me and my sibling. He had planned to sell it and live off the proceeds but then was diagnosed as terminally ill. The property was in his sole name (he was a big earner and her a non-earner). My step-mother did a Larke v Nugus (so I was the person who mentioned it earlier) which has shown hospital records saying he was bright and alert (although on a lot of pain killers) and making his own decisions. The codicil was in line with the rest of the Will splitting everything 50/50 so was not a surprising move on his part, yet she is still contesting it. I don't know yet on what grounds but the thinking behind it is just that she wanted all of it. I don't think it will get to court though because she doesn't have much of a case. We have learned to push aside anything irrelevant and only deal with the relevant facts that a court would be interested in. However, there are 4 of us (including our partners) which really helps as you can talk it through. But you are here talking it through so listen to what people are saying to you and only focus on the relevant parts.

Rachie,

I really hope your husband sees your post. There really do seem to be a lot of people who have zero integrity when it comes to wills. Even if you were just projecting a ‘hypothetical’, you have clearly and coldly thought about your husband dying first and dispossessing his children. Lovely!

I don’t think people should be judged by their wills. It is something many don’t want to think much about for obvious reasons and they sometimes make bad decisions.

However, a solicitor being called by one child to a parent’s death bed to vary a will in that child’s favour rings all sorts of alarm bells. It will be interesting to see what advice OP actually gets from her solicitor based on all the facts.

The joint will made when your DF was still alive would have been invalidated upon his death.
You would need irrevocable proof that your brother forced your dm to write a will against her wishes. Do you have that?
OP, what does the current will state? If it names the grandchildren, then surely they are beneficiaries? Otherwise their names would not be on the will.
What is the approximate value of the estate?
Who are the beneficiaries in the will, and by what amount /proportion?
The estate should have paid out for the funeral costs. Did that happen?

Unless we have this information, we are just guessing at the advice to give you.

Rachie at no point said that she intended to do this. She was explaining the law on the matter.

Zzz,

I covered that in my post. You don’t need to talk personally to explain law. She was clearly thinking about it in light of her husband’s poor health and the nature of her blended family.

Greedy is the person who wants the whole lot for themselves
Greed is being after money that is not yours in the first place.

I have no idea if I'll get anything from my parents. I might do or maybe they will choose to give it to a cat charity. It is their money and for them to dispose as they wish. It will oy become mine to enjoy if they decide to give me something.

You clearly consider that some of your mind money, and it was hers at this point, was owed to you. It wasn't.

If there is clear evidence that her hand was forced or she agreed to something that was definitely not her choice, then yes by all mean, do challenge, but if she decided to change her mind at the last minute for whatever reason, that was her choice to do so with her money.

In the nicest possible way OP, I think you are deep in grief and there is a lot invested in this emotionally for you which is making it personal and upsetting and you are lashing out at anyone who disagrees.

I had a similar situation with a much loved family member - in all honesty I don't 'feel' that how it turned out would have been what she might have gone for if she'd had all the facts and a cogent mind- BUT a large part of that boils down to not wanting to feel she may have cared more for others, wasnt bothered about me, maybe I didnt know her etc. All of which, years later with a clearer mind, way well be true (which is fine) bit equally I do not think it was about that. I wouldnt have contested the will though in a million years, she made it and whether that pleases me or not she had options and chose the ones that made her feel most comfortable in that moment, as a person who was unwell. It is a difficult time. What is 'fair' is very subjective and is up to the person making the will to decide- your opinion on it doesn't play a part.

I would seriously recommend talking to a grief counsellor before you spend too much money on a solicitor- you are very unlikely to get anywhere and seem not to be considering how far in debt YOU will potentially end up just to spite someone else because they have something you want- both emotionally and re:the money.

You will need to prove what you allege beyond reasonable doubt and you most likely cannot. The fact you can provide a logical argument that makes sense to you is not the point. You need to prove it DID happen, not that it could. Talk to the solicitor by all means BUT be very careful to provide facts only and not your opinion. The solicitor will go by what you tell them and you'll have wasted hundreds by the time it is clear there is little evidence for it in the legal sense.

I'm sure your relative would not want you to be upset in this way OP- arrange grief counselling for your own sake.

@larrygrylls I 100% agree with you. You are the only person who seems to fully get this and where I am coming from. And yes if rachies husband sees it and has any sense he will quickly change the house from jointly owned to tenants in common then both his and rachies children will just get their parents half which is what my father should have done. And yes it is about the integrity of it. I know people are right in saying by law it was hers and legally she can do with it as she wished but surely most people would have more morals than that? I would understand if she left it slightly unequal to them as she felt gratitude for being cared for by them in her last days (,and I use the words "cared for" loosely as who knows what kind of care they were giving her if they were pressuring her and once the will was done and they had what they wanted) but my friend who has worked in care homes says costs for looking after someone terminally Ill is usually around a £1000 a week. And he has been left far far more than that.

no one will judge me everyone in my family is encouraging me to contest it

And are they giving you money to pay the solicitor? Or are they just cheering you from the sidelines, knowing that when the court decision comes in and you have bills to pay, only you are liable to pay them?

And yes it should ring alarm bells to any judge that the partner if my brother who was left everything (,so stands to gain by default if being with him) was the one whi made the call for solicitors to come out and also lied to thecsolicitirs saying she isn't yet on medication when in fact she was!

Why did she lie if she wasn't being manipulative and greedy and wasnt the driving force behind her making a new will?!! Innocent people do not lie!

You don’t need a solicitor for this kind of thing. Take legal advice by all means,
An hour £200 kinda thing and the represent yourself. This isn’t going to be a complex case the judge will either believe you or not.

Do you have thousands to give to your solicitor and I mean thousands? I've been dealing with a relative's will and it's taken the best part of ten years and cost an eye watering amount and that wasn't contesting the will. The will was all ready in place. Honestly I would not recommend this unless you have thousands saved for legal bills.

@ MrsPelligrinoPetrichor

There was a will and not contested
Why on Earth 10 years and loads of money to sort?

@dontgobaconmyheart you express the sentiment much better than me.

OP, it does come down to morals, but ones moral is not another person's and when it comes to money, you are entitled to do what you want with what is yours.

It is always going to be hugely upsetting to find that your parent has treated you in away that comes as a complete shock. It's a lot to take in and it's incredibly confusing but it remains that they are entitled to make decisions that don't make sense to others, even out of the blue.

you did get something from the will though right? How much more did your brother get? If the difference would be swallowed by fees and court costs, it might be worth leaving it as the emotional labour will be immense.

It's so hard and I'm so sorry this happened but you have repeatedly stated that you'd mum wasn't very nice or loving so this could just be another way of her demonstrating this. I know you say your dad wanted you to have an equal share but he didn't make provisions for that so it's irrelevant now, as harsh as that sounds. You can't go back in time. The money was your mums to do as she wished and perhaps she appreciated being in her sons home for her final months, rather than in a care home with people she didn't know. You mention her being frail and vulnerable towards the end, perhaps that's why she valued their care and attention enough to change her will? Care homes might be cheaper than what he has 'cost' but they aren't substitutes for family love and care. You could try and see it like that - she had her son and his partner, a qualified nurse to help her cope and that peace of mind knowing she was loved and well cared for, is priceless in my mind.

Unless you got £10 and he walked away with £1 million, a judge could say you were both adequately provided for as you were left some money, she could have left it all to a cats protection!

Also, and I mean this kindly but if it were the other way round and your mother had left you the majority and your brother was contesting it would you give the money to him or would you say it was her wishes and fight?

Are the family who are egging you on and stoking the flames of your (justifiable) anger putting their hands in their pockets to help with any legal fees?

OP, people have given you so much informed and sensible advice and all you are doing is lashing out.

You aren’t in a position to think clearly right now. You’re too emotionally invested, and it’s obscured your judgement. Inheritance has nothing to do with morals, it’s about what’s legal and as much as it hurts, your mother had every legal right to change her will.

Contact Cruse, the bereavement charity, and talk through your feelings before going any further.

And to @Jellybeansincognito, my heartfelt sympathy. My loss is recent too and it’s so hard.

I’m so sorry OP this sounds such an upsetting situation. I don’t know wills so can’t give you specific advice but wondered if mediation is a possibility?

I know it’s unfair but if you and your younger sibling were willing to do mediation perhaps your elder brother would be persuaded to not go through legal fees. I don’t think from what you say about him that he would agree to split evenly but you might be able to get a better amount without huge legal costs.

On the other hand, putting up a good fight, even if you lose, may be far more cathartic for you.

Yes, very cathartic when she’s bankrupt.

Op - can you say what the current % split of the Estate is between the three of you? And does the current Will state why this was done this way (sometimes they do)? I.e - your DM expected to live a lot longer, and thought the larger share of the estate should go to your brother and his partner in lieu of care home costs?

OP. From everything you have said, it's clear you will do this, and it's also clear that you will lose. You will end up tens of thousands in the hole and with all the wounds still raw, ruing the day you made it a legal matter.

Your case is based on emotion: what you were morally owed because your mother didn't love you enough, and what your brother isn't morally owed because you consider him shady and dishonest. But the court doesn't deal in emotion. It deals in law. It cannot and will not rule on what you morally deserve. It will rule on whether your mother's will was legal. And legally speaking, she can disinherit you totally if she wants. You cannot argue in the same breath that the two of you were not emotionally close and she didn't especially like you, and also say that it was uncharacteristic of her to vary her will not in your favour. You would need solid evidence of coercion and of a lack of sound mind, which you do not have.

Don't do this. Wait. Get counselling. Just don't do anything yet.

Cressida,

The OP has two issues: legal and moral/emotional. She has clearly explained the moral dimension and equally clearly stated that her legal case rests upon capacity and coercion.

She either can or cannot make the legal case but it sounds like she has a case (solicitor called by brother not mother and major inaccuracies within latest will).

As long as she asks a reputable solicitor and, OP, given the nature of your case I would get at least two opinions and listen to proper legal advice, regardless of how unpalatable, then there is no reason that a deathbed will coerced by an aggressive ‘Carer’ should not be overruled.