To be a bit shocked at how much more my colleague is paid?

[Twittlebee]

My colleague left his open pay slip on his desk, in clear view of our other colleague. Of course this is awful, she shouldn't have had a peak but she did.

She then text me to say how much he is on as she knows how much more it means he is getting paid than us and we were recently discussing our hopes for asking for a payrise.

So we are on exact same level, same qualifications, same experience and same responsibilities etc. I've been at the company 8 months longer than him.

I earn £30k and he earns £45k. That is quite a difference isnt it? I'm struggling to work that out.

My directors have joked about how cheap I am and it's one of the reasons they agreed to hire me despite being pregnant.

I'm not sure what I'm aiming to get out of this post. Maybe an idea of how to ask for a payrise, what do I do with this information, can I expect a £15k jump up in pay?

I think this is a very big discrepancy here TBH! Can you talk to your other colleague, and both go in together to challenge why this man is paid so much more? I cant see why if you are as well qualified and have been there longer ? Surely you must have a case for sexual discrimination.

No @Cohle sorry if I misunderstood. I thought that you were saying the OP should go in and set out those factors in the discussion as to what was wrong. I must have misunderstood, and so I was saying that under other circumstances such an approach would not have been acceptable/ well received.

Also @OP, what does the colleague who showed you / took a peek earn? Where does it measure up? Is she using you as battle fodder?

OP it is very common so now you know your worth, the best way to get a pay rise is to move firms.

I moved firms twice in one year - the firm I was at sounded like they would go bust so I decided to start looking - to get a 15K pay rise. The first firm then went bust 3 months into the job I moved to. I was notified as they thought I was still on the payroll....

Join a trade union, get your colleague to do the same and discuss it with your rep.

www.tuc.org.uk/join-union

As Mary McArthur once said:

"A trade union is like a bundle of sticks. The workers are bound together and have the strength of unity. No employer can do as he likes with them. They have the power of resistance. They can ask for an advance without fear. A worker who is not in a union is like a single stick. She can easily be broken or bent to the will of her employer. She has not the power to resist a reduction in wages. If she is fined she must pay without complaint. She dare not ask for a ‘rise’. If she does, she will be told, ‘Your place is outside the gate: there are plenty to take your place.’ An employer can do without one worker. He cannot do without all his workers.” (The Woman Worker,
Autumn 1907)

Firms rely on women not wanting to rock the boat if/when they discover unequal pay.

Can you ask your colleague outright how much he gets? That’s essentially how some of the BBC stuff came out.

@Dividingthementalload has written a v good post.

I earn £10k more than some of my colleagues. We all do the same role and have the same budget and role responsibilities. I can only think that I'm on more due to negotiation. I wouldn't accept the job unless they matched what I was previously earning. I then also negotiated a payment band, meaning I increase yearly by £1k for the next 5 years. Other colleagues obviously didn't do this. There are two of us on the same salary and she negotiated hard too. I don't feel bad for those on less, they may have been on a lot less to start in their previous roles. Who knows.

I walked from my previous firm for this. £15k less than the bloke sitting next to me, despite the fact that I had more years of experience and was responsible for training him and being his referral point.

When I started my next role, I negotiated really hard and got the £15k rise I wanted. However I found out a year later that a peer of mine was doing a very similar role for £20k less than me. The difference being that she's been at the firm for 15 years and worked her way up whereas I came in as an external hire. It's not at all right but it's how smaller firms exploit salary savings - you only get the big pay bumps by moving around.

I suspect I'll be on the move again relatively soon, as our newest bloke (junior to me) has just been brought in on £17k more than me, despite the fact that I have a more senior role and more responsibility than him.

What's your notice period, and what sort of job availability is there? If you are told that you'll have to wait until April for a review you could reply "If I'm still here in April" and point out that it's perfectly possible for you to have applied and been interviewed for a job, have worked your notice and be working at the industry average wage somewhere else by the time April comes around.

TBH the best way to have upward wage movement is to change job and either negotiate hard in the new job (knowing that they will try to claw it back by not giving you a proper raise for years) or use the offer of a new job to negotiate hard in your current job.

Do you know the full story? i am in a significantly higher salary than anybody else on my grade. but there are reasons: i have specialist knowledge the company wants to keep, one grade up is a lot mor managing tasks that i don’t want to do. so i get the salary from a higher grade (not the bonus/benefits though), and stay (i would leave if i had to do the management role, or if they would pay me less). others don’t have that expertise, so get paid less.’

Chances are he negotiated better deal where you just took what was on offer.

Yes I did already state this is the case @Twittlebee

The thing is I dont feel like I can walk as I am pregnant again now so I suppose that is my issue isnt it. I had no bargaining chip because I was pregnant when I joined and again they know I wont move because I'm pregnant again. They are being so supportive this pregnancy too with the fortnightly scans and appointments (high risk pregnancy).

I do actually love working here, just so surprised by that pay difference as I do know full story.

I can see I am very cheap for what I do though, I suppose I'll have to start looking on maternity leave?

@rwalker *

(I keep doing that... somehow tagging myself rather the person I mean to)

You need to work out why he is a comparator (doing the same job), and anything which might account for differences. Negotiating harder does not count; more experience, better qualifications, on- call allowances would be relevant (though not necessarily to the point of 50% of your current salary.)

You need to compare base gross salary. There can easily be valid reasons why you don't get the same net, take-home pay - additional voluntary contributions for pension, repayment of travel card loan and so on. Having said that, extra benefits or different leave allowances could be part of an equal pay claim, if it meant one person''s overall package was more favourable as a result, but you would need expert advice on that.

It's always a good idea to know the market rate for your role, and if you're just going to ask for a payrise, then it is definitely key for that. However, it's less relevant for an equal pay claim - it doesn't matter if your employer pays at the market rate, or above it or below it, as long as they also pay everyone who is a comparator at, above or below the market rate in the same way.

If you're not in a union, please join one. From what you say, I would infer that they know they should be paying you more, and they may well use your maternity against you, because they know it won't be easy for you to walk. Don't expect them to play fair. Get experts on your side who have experience of fighting equal pay cases and can advise you.

I think I'd start looking for something else.

*Ah ok - I didn't realise you were pregnant. I'd probably ask for a rise and if I wasn't satisfied with the response just tread water until I went on leave.

I think in almost every workplace I've worked in the men have earned more than the women. Not only that but male staff got away with a lot more in terms of behaviour and lack of performance.

Illegal discrimination aside (I assume that your company acts within the law).
Last week you were happy to sell your labour for X pounds. I know it can be a bitter pill to swallow, but if someone else is only willing to sell their labour for X + 15, that is none of your business.

Did you know your worth and negotiate hard enough when you were offered the job.

Good luck op - and many congratulations

So this is from a quick glance at someone else's pay slip? What if it was misinterpreted and the gap isn't so huge? Are you sure the figures are correct? Not just someone causing trouble and saying he's paid so much more than you. What about overtime etc, does he do that and it's included?

Read the thread through @Disquieted1

The payslip, my colleague had a good look at it, think she must have done all but take a photo @Coulddowithanap as she knows his gross and net etc. (I should imagine the office was empty as often we all work from home or have meetings out and about)

Actually yeah I have experienced this in terms of behaviour in former work places @BringOnTheBotox but then again maybe not as I never tested those boundaries fully like the men did.

That's how I am thinking too @SnoozyLou

I really appreciate all the responses on this. It's made me get my thinking out somewhere too.

It's made it certain for me that I can obviously not mention my colleague looking at the payslip nor can I realistically expect a £15k jump up. I do know it's down to the differing circumstances of when we both joined. And he does technically have more experience too as I have had maternity leave and compassionate leave plus I am pregnant again now and been needing half a day off a fortnight (although i have been making that time up) so yes he does work more than me too.

I shall certainly ask the question though of pay when I am next in the office same time as my Director

Some people just negotiate a higher salary when they are hired! Usually it’s men who have that sort of boldness - but that’s not necessarily discriminating.

Last week you were happy to sell your labour for X pounds. I know it can be a bitter pill to swallow, but if someone else is only willing to sell their labour for X + 15, that is none of your business.

It's all of our business. It's no wonder we still can't take equal pay for granted, 50 years after it became law. There's plenty of evidence that women do negotiate but are not taken as seriously as men. Women are often judged more harshly than men for the same behaviours and achievements in the workplace. Lack of openness around pay usually acts against women's interests - I am willing to bet there are a lot more of us on this thread who are being paid less than our male comparators but just don't know. Equal pay is one of the easier factors in the gender pay gap to fix: employers have all the data around what women are paid; what their qualifications are; what their duties are. They just don't care, because women often don't know and don't challenge it, and because while it may be the law that they should pay equally, there's not really anything to force them.

Don't blame women for all the systemic barriers against us in reaching equal pay.

It's made it certain for me that I can obviously not mention my colleague looking at the payslip nor can I realistically expect a £15k jump up.

Please read the advice on the Equal Pay Portal.

This is why unions and discussing your pay with colleagues is SO important! OP this is such bullshit! I hope you get your pay rise. UGH! I am annoyed about this for you.

The thing is I dont feel like I can walk as I am pregnant again now so I suppose that is my issue isnt it. I had no bargaining chip because I was pregnant when I joined and again they know I wont move because I'm pregnant again. They are being so supportive this pregnancy too with the fortnightly scans and appointments (high risk pregnancy).

I think sadly this is the view many women in the workplace have to take. If you have a supportive employer who is understanding and willing to cut you some slack with regards to childcare emergencies etc then it's difficult to rock the boat with regards to pay. There are so many women, myself included, that remain in positions on less pay than their peers for this very reason.