LGBTQI...

[UnaCorda]

I think it is unhelpful for the intersex community for such conditions (AIS, Swyer Syndrome, etc.) to be conflated with sexuality (i.e. LGBTQ, etc.) or with gender identity issues such as being gender-queer or transgender.

Intersex conditions are biological/medical whereas sexuality is psychological, so - in my opinion - they should be treated differently. AIBU?

Hi @Cecily75 I’m also a non-white person. The intersectionality I’m talking about here is not about all oppression but about the specific types of oppression experienced by LGBTQ+ persons.

but about the specific types of oppression experienced by LGBTQ+ persons.

Except there isn't one specific type of oppression experienced by LGBTQ+ persons - that's the bloody point. The LGB experience one type of oppression, the T another and the I another completely difference type, so it makes no sense at all to group them together. Unless for nefarious reasons not to do with supporting the oppressed at all.

LGB should be LGBP. T is not a sexuality and pretty sure half the LGB community do not want to be lumped with a random minority 'just because'. Genetalia does not = sexuality. Sexuality does not = Gender.

It's fucking batshit.

My gay son hates it - he finds it very othering. I can see what he’s saying about that!

@titchy thank you!

Vallar is your trans son’s boyfriend biologically male from birth? If he’s a gay man how does he feel about having a boyfriend with a woman’s body and genitalia? I guess if he doesn’t mind then that is the very definition of gender fluid and non binary. But in essence it’s simply what used to be called bisexual, isn’t it?

I’ve always thought it should be LGB and not the additional ‘letter salad’ as someone called it, I also really hate the term cis and will not use it or agree to have it forced on me by others, but apparently that makes me a transphobic bigot?!

@titchy my DC uses contraception.

@AllideasAndNoAction my DC's boyfriend is biologically male and I don't think he is attracted to males at all but now considers himself gay... it's all very confusing.

A straight boy considering himself gay because he has found sexual/emotional connection to a person in a female body, in men’s clothes with a boy’s name and a male ‘identity’ is not just confusing, it’s utterly mad.

And clearly neither of them are actually gay. To be gay you need to be more sexually attracted to people who share your BIOLOGICAL SEX than to the opposite BIOLOGICAL SEX. It’s been the whole point of gayness since time immemorial.

It’s quite insulting to gay people to have their hard fought for rights and recognition hijacked by people claiming to be gay while preferring to have relationships with people who do not share their biological sex.

You sound bemused but tolerant and resigned to it, which is all you can do I suppose. I’m glad it’s not my child - I don’t think I’d be as patient as you. If I felt my child needed to be trans to find peace within themselves that’s one thing, but I wouldn’t be able to contain my frustration and contempt for the situation you’ve described.

I could write a thesis on why I think we are experiencing this epidemic right now in the developed world, but that’s too complex to go into on this thread.

YANBU, I agree OP. I think a lot of intersex people don't like it.

I also don't think it's going to prove helpful in the long run for LGB to have had T and all the rest of the alphabet soup added on to them...

As for one of them "attracted to people by personality not looks", er- that's all humans! Ridiculous. That's also not an oppressed minority which was at one time an illegal way to live. It's all become a bit of a joke. Which is unfortunate when there's still lots of homophobia around...

They aren’t really though unless they want to be are they? Which is why it’s generally LGBTQ or LGBT+

Besides, intersex is about biology not feelz.

The LGB experience one type of oppression

Even that isn't straightforward, have you ever read the views some gay people hold about bisexuals? I have and I don't particularly feel that the LGB etc community is always welcoming of the B. But apparently we face nothing because we can just have a straight relationship and benefit from straight passing privilege.

If he’s a gay man how does he feel about having a boyfriend with a woman’s body and genitalia? I guess if he doesn’t mind then that is the very definition of gender fluid and non binary.

Surely a "cis" male human having a relationship with a physically female human is the very definition of straight? (Ergo he's not a gay man!)

You sound bemused but tolerant and resigned to it, which is all you can do I suppose. I’m glad it’s not my child - I don’t think I’d be as patient as you. If I felt my child needed to be trans to find peace within themselves that’s one thing, but I wouldn’t be able to contain my frustration and contempt for the situation you’ve described.

I'd be willing to bet a significant amount of money that this turns out to be a phase. Sorry if that sounds dismissive, but it is surely ridiculously contorted to class a relationship between Person A (with connate vagina) and Person B (with connate penis/testes) into anything other than run-of-the-mill heterosexual.

Well yes Una that was kind of my point!

Well yes Una that was kind of my point!

@UnaCorda I do hope you are right and it is a phase. I have been hoping that it is a phase for 4 years now. Still hoping...

@AllideasAndNoAction yes you are right it's completely mad. My dc knows what I think about it, we've had many conversations about the whole thing. At the end of the day I want a relationship with my child, so I just go along with it but the cognitive dissonance is painful..,

Where does someone with Turners Syndrome fit in? Someone with one X chromosome who required hormonal support to reach full growth and to develop secondary sexual characteristics. Ie., boobs, feminine looking body etc. The person I speak of has ovaries, uterus, vagina. Married, heterosexually attracted. Would that be intersex?

Yes Turners is one of the DSDs (what used to be called Intersex). Let your friend know she fits the Stonewall definition of trans and can now use the blokes loos.

My view on this is quite simple.

DSD are physical conditions, that cause physically identifiable changes in the body. It is not about feelings or belief. This puts people with DSD into a different category to LGB & to T.

However, the key point for me is that people with DSD have specifically asked NOT to be co-opted into LGBT.

Twitchy- will do!😀

However, the key point for me is that people with DSD have specifically asked NOT to be co-opted into LGBT.

Yes, many, many, many times.

However, I'd like to point out it is the T and Q who do the co-opting. Back when it was just LGB it didn't happen and many homosexual people aren't happy with having their lives co-opted either.

YANBU, OP.

The I in LGBTIQ+ is never supported anyway, just used to promote the T, despite individuals with DSD's asking not to used in that way.

There is extreme ignorance about DSD's, which I don't think is helped by being conflated with the T.

To me, clearly, LBG share some experiences, T is another set of experiences unrelated to orientation, I is a further set unrelated to orientation or gender identity, and the Q means sweet FA.