To find this very uncomfortable?

[CathyandHeathcliff]

Did anyone else see the BBC coverage about being a ‘tradwife’?

Basically it includes submitting to your husband and being the homemaker, with no other role. The traditional housewife and spoiling your husband like it’s 1959.

I was very uncomfortable watching it, partly because I realised it’s my 60 year old mother.
She never went back to work when she had me 30 years ago, then went on to have my brother.
She has a small amount of savings, but zero income. She relies on my dad entirely. They have the traditional role and always have done, my father worked 9-5 all week (and longer) and my mother stayed at home and looked after the home and us. Even when we went to school she continued to stay at home.
She now has no friends she’s in contact with, does basically everything with my dad or brother (who still lives at home) and continues to ‘look after them’. My dad and brother do none of their own washing or ironing. She makes all the meals and does all the cleaning and always has done.
She doesn’t drive so she relies completely on my dad. It really worries me, as she has no concept of paying bills or online banking, she’s never paid a bill in her life or had to deal with anything financial. She has only just learnt how to use a cash point.
I’m really worried if something happens to my dad.
She also has zero skill set, except for some office work 30 years ago...she hasn’t even done any volunteering or anything in the meantime, although I keep mentioning it.
Even when they were financially struggling when we were kids (they’re very comfortable now) my mum didn’t go out and get a job and my dad ended up working two jobs.

Anyway, just wondered your thoughts and I guess I feel really uncomfortable about it, as it’s essentially my childhood and my ‘
parent’s life beyond that.

[Blinkyblonkyblimey]

This was my friend. Stopped work as soon as she could, was happy to do all the household jobs and actually boasted about leaving all 'the hard stuff' to her husband. Then he unexpectedly died. She didn't have a clue - couldn't even write a cheque and, as she had never learned how to operate the central heating, kept having to ask people to come over switch it on/off for her (for years, I may add!). She 'couldn't be bothered' to learn to use a computer and so had to rely on others to sort out everything that was in her husbands' name (banking, utilities etc.). The immediate help she received after his death led her to assume that her male friends and her female friend's husbands would step in permanently to do the 'hard bits' for her. She is quite bitter about what she perceived to be people letting her down when they declined to do her gardening or jobs around the house. Like your Mum, OP, she has always been very defensive about her situation and is so set in her ways, she finds it impossible to push herself to attempt anything new. She will say something along the lines of, 'It's alright for you. You're practical and capable.' or 'It doesn't suit me.' when encouraged to try something different. She is becoming increasingly isolated as friends (myself included) drift away because we simply cannot cope with her needs and expectations. It's very sad, but ultimately, it was her choice.

[CathyandHeathcliff]

@pineing what happened after her breakdown may I ask?

[Ponoka7]

@FreedomfromPE, are you from outside of the UK? Because none of what you say is true of the UK.

OP, of course she doesn't want to talk about dying at 60 .

An ex neighbour lived like that. On her husband's death her children taught her how to budget and set up direct debits etc.

She's now become computer literate, thanks to a library course and volunteers in a hospice shop, which has led to a bit of a social life.

I've known many women who on retiring, have fell apart and gone down hill fast. Likewise a lot of men, because work is their life.

You can't predict that xy&z will definitely happen.

[Ponoka7]

Blinkyblonkyblimey

"she is quite bitter about what she perceived to be people letting her down when they declined to do her gardening or jobs around the house."

That's got nothing to do with working or not, though. Many working people opt out of part of household management.

[SleeptightDaisy]

I became a sahm when I had my ds partly due to the school where I worked refusing to allow any drop in hours. It's worked for us as a family I've got quite a bit of savings, friends I meet up with regularly plus I have time for just me. Now both children are at school I'm looking to get back into teaching but it's difficult to find any part time positions where we live.

[pineing]

@CathyandHeathcliff I have PM'd you.

[flirtygirl]

I know lots of trad wife's, doesn't mean you don't have a brain or haven't worked outside the home but it suits them for this period in their life, all the ones I know are under 45. I know loads more older but not as well.

I was a trad wife and I purposely chose it after having been a single mother doing everything. If my husband had not been abusive I would still be a trad wife now.

I also don't see it as relying on someone financially as both of you have roles and if you swapped roles, one would still be bringing in the money and one would be doing homemaking and child rearing. You rely on each other as in most relationships.

Most of the women I know whilst traditional in their role, all decisions are joint decisions and I think that why it works in their relationships. The older women I don't think get to make as many joint decisions, due to the relationship dynamic being even more traditional and patriachal.

I think it's a valid lifestyle choice. I would chose to do it again if I found a lovely non abusive man to marry.

Just to add I'm perfectly capable of working, I just like my life centered around my family more and I have worked and been ambitious in the past.

[DrCoconut]

My grandma was born in 1918 and learned to drive at 17. When she got married and was forced out of her job as a result she started working from home. It would probably be called upcycling now but during WW2 she had a good customer base of people wanting clothes made, altered, repurposed etc. These people stayed her customers after the war and she did well from it. Grandad cycled to work and grandma used the car for school run and shopping. In later life her health was poor and she relied on grandad a lot but after he died she had the skills and resources to draw on to cope and she did. I realise this is maybe atypical and they were comfortable financially which makes a difference, but I have not grown up around helpless dependent women (my mum was a young widow and had to crack on) and I can't ever see myself in that role.

[SusieOwl4]

I don't see any problem as long as the woman is happy ?

Its all down to personal choice and your own priorities . I think there are times when a lot of working mums would like a bit more of a break and a less stressful life.

I cant see anyway it should make you feel uncomfortable.

My parents were similar and have been happily married for over 60 years . I on the other hand run my own company .
What does it matter?

[flirtygirl]

Also the women I know are captains of their family, they deal with the money, the system to day, the wife work that people on here moan about, they drive, they are educated. Many home ed as that the community I am part of, I'm also part of a religious community and the two do sometimes overlap.

The women many talk about in this thread, not knowing how to use a mobile or drive are probably the older generation.

Most of the women I know are also university educated, some gave up teaching and became more traditional the longer they stayed at home away from outside work.

Some wifes also work outside the home but are very traditional in their role at home. Some unfortunately do defer to their husband whereas I prefer joint decision making.

[flirtygirl]

I would say to any women trad or otherwise that ad part of their family budget that when she is at home child rearing, that money is paid into a pension and separate pot for her. So in event of death, she has some protection.

Family money is joint money in most peoples case but everyone should know where they stand and know the financial information. Not knowing is ridiculous for any sex and money should be budgeted and spent and saved by both partners.

In the event of a divorce, at least you know where the money is, you know the family situation and you can sort out division of assets.

[rillette]

What scares me is the new Mrs Hinch generation who seem to all aspire to exactly this - a gilded cage filled with Zoflora and grey crushed velvet

[Biscuitsneeded]

I have 2 friends who don't work even though their children are teenagers. They're not surrendered wives or anything unusual, they just have husbands who earn plenty and they see their role as keeping the household and the family operating smoothly. Both very intelligent women with degrees who worked up until they had kids, but both have mothers who never worked so I guess for them it's normal. One in particular is basically an unofficial tutor for her kids - she sits with them and goes through everything they've done at school, supports them doing HW etc. It works for them.
However, I have 3 big worries. One is that a DH will decide to go off with someone else (knowing them I think unlikely but you never know) - these women have no independent means of making any money. Second is that when their teenagers leave home (particularly those whose mum is so extremely invested in them), they will feel bereft of any purpose. Third is that they have 3 daughters between them. Intense mum is very keen on daughter doing very well at school, getting high grades etc. But what her DD is internalising is all 'women don't work once they have kids, women must be decorative (sorry that's a leap, but mum is very well-presented and she and DD give each other make-up tutorials!)' - I just wonder if she really believes her life is the best model for her daughter. Perhaps she does!

[Italiangreyhound]

I voted YABU because it's her life and presumably her choice.

My parents were similar, although my mum had a part time job. She could not drive and my dad knew nothing about money or finances etc. They were massive team and did well together. When dad died mum coped.

It's not the life I wanted, or live, but it was their life. I think it is much more of an issue where a wife is pushed into that role, or where a husband is pushed into the 'bread winner' role and has to do a lot while wife doesn't work. I think most modern marriages are a a partnership and that is how it should be.

CathyandHeathcliff I'd like to see that programme, can you link to it please

[Nsky]

She’s very scared

[Italiangreyhound]

"to do a lot while wife doesn't work...." In case I give the wrong impression looking after young children is a lot of work! But once children are older and need less care it makes sense for both parties to contribute to family finances unless together they decide they do not need to.

I guess I mean it is for families to work out what works best for them.

[DC3dilemma]

@CathyandHeathcliff

Yep, my parents too.

The scary thing is that until around 5 years ago my mum drove. Then my dad started indulging his own interest in larger and larger cars, knowing she wouldn’t drive them. Now she’s not driven for 5 years. They live rurally and excepting any unpredictable accidents looks likely to outlive him by a couple of decades. WTF is she going to do?

[GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER]

I knew of two women (same age friends of my mother, who died at 97) who never worked after their marriages, had never paid a bill or written a cheque. They were lost after their husbands died. And this despite being reasonably well educated and having quite good jobs before they married.

My mother was completely different and could never understand how they had allowed themselves to become so financially and generally helpless - and in neither case was it a question of a bullying or controlling husband. They had just sat back, and turned into ‘the little woman’.
Their own choice, in other words.

[Scarlettpixie]

Well to some extent this was my mum in that she did all the washing, cleaning, ,most of the cooking, the washing up etc. My dad did gardening, decorating, diy and later in life some of the cooking. My mum did always work apart from when I was very small. She did factory work as did my dad and although they did ok, both were sensible and quite frugal, I learned I did not want to do factory work as it seemed flipping hard for not great pay - especially for my mum.

My mum never had anything to do with finances. When my dad died I took over managing these for her. It was pretty straightforward as all the bills were direct debit. i used to write everything down in a little book so she could see what she was spending and what she had in the bank if she wanted to buy anything. She never went to a cash point on her own or wrote a cheque but managed fine and supporting her was not particularly onerous. She did use her debit card in shops and usually had a couple of hundred in cash - just in case.

I don’t think children follow the path of their mothers as they grow up in different times. I am very independent though I have to do all the chores as I am a single mum!

[TimeForPlentyIn2020]

she hasn’t even done any volunteering or anything in the meantime, although I keep mentioning it

Oh god, I can only imagine how patronised she feels!

[Rubixcuube]

No doubt there will be someone saying that she was/is a victim of abuse next and your dad was/is controlling etc...🙄

[Quartz2208]

My grandmother is the same. Weirdly though we worried more about how my grandad would cope because all the things she did were around looking after the house. he did the financial side.

When he died 5 years ago she coped fine because it was quite easy for my mum to take over the bill paying remotely etc and she moved into a retirement flat where she made friends quickly and had a social life. He also made sure that there was enough money left to pay for his funeral and move from their 3 bed terrace to a one bed retirement flat.

That said I think where your mum is different is that she does no volunteering friends etc. Nothing to say she has a life outside of your dad and brother. That I would say is more unusual. Both my grandmothers had the church and mothers union and did volunteer work through that

[Skysblue]

I watched the bbc coverage and didn’t find it uncomfortable. I do feel very uncomfortable with some of the judgements made in this thread. We all try to do the best for our children. We have different ideas about what the best is. My experiences have led me to believe that childcare under age 4-5 is very harmful in the majority of cases. Now he’s older, I can glance around my son’s class and spot the kids who’ve been in childcare young because the ones who benefitted from having a sahm are much more mature... and kinder. I’ve sat in the playgrounds and playgroups and seen how badly the nannies treat the children when the parents aren’t around (visiting playgrounds for 10 seconds to stage photos to show mum then dragging disappointed crying child away etc etc). I read the studies about the impact of childcare on early development and I conclude “not on my watch.” Perhaps others’ experiences have been different.

You would look at me and see a ‘trad wife’ but I didn’t take this role out of some desire to avoid work / submit to husband, it began because I could see the benefits for my child. Now that he’s at school I see little point in taking some crappy part-time job that I’m way overqualified for when my income would be 10% of my husbands (when we met it was 3x husbands: my role has enabled his income rise), so I put my energy into other projects. This arrangement means I do a lot of housework. I hate that. It’s very dull. But it’s the price I paid for how awesome my son is.

[1forsorrow]

My grandparents married 99 years ago. She told me that she gave up her job on the Friday (as expected) they married on the Saturday and on the Monday she got breakfast and he said, "You can have anything you want, you only have to ask." When he got home that night she said, "I can have anything I want without asking, I've got my job back."

There's always been a spectrum and there have always been people who think only their way is right, my grandmother was disapproved of but she made her decisions, the women in the programme made their decisions they just happen to be different decisions.

[CathyandHeathcliff]

I think she’s frightened of getting out into the world. She pretends she isn’t, but she’s a very nervous and paranoid person.
I only suggested volunteering as a means to meet people and possibly make some friends...she really isn’t interested though. Which is fine, but I just think having some social connections will help her longer term if the worst happens.