Anne Frank - should people have heard about her?

[MilkTrayLimeBarrel]

Chatting with DH about where to go for a city break this spring. I suggested Amsterdam - lots to see, including tulips, canals, bikes and Anne Frank's house. He asked who she was? AIBU to think that everybody should have heard of her and what she stood for/did? I couldn't believe that he honestly had no idea who she was!

Anyway, I very much doubt that the US universally dates WWII from 1941.

my secondary school day were mid sixties and we didn't learn about WW2 at all and until I actually found a copy of Anne Franks Diary in a second hand bookshop I hadn't heard of her, but due to my parents taking us as children to belguim and ypres I knew about belsen as the original museum had a section on the holocaust as well as WW1 trenches, it was a lot smaller in those days than the big museum that is there now

Japan invaded China in 1937, from their point of view that was the beginning of the war years just as from our 1939 was or from the US's 1941 was

I suppose, strictly speaking, it wasn't a true world war until 1941 then. I always think of it in terms of Europe, and Hitler's invasion of Poland In 1939 triggering our involvement.

I knew about Japan and China because I helped DD with her GCSE history revision. I also helped her revise Vietnam, which doesn't feel like history for me because that happened in my lifetime. It did help my understand what happened though.

I used to watch The World at War with my dad in the 1970s. My mum couldn’t watch any war films or programmes about the war because she was in London during the blitz. Even the sound of an air raid siren used to scare her.

I hate this idea that all education happens at school and if you weren't taught a specific subject then ignorance of it is totally acceptable.

I do judge people who are ignorant of one of the most famous children of the 20th century. Even if they don't know the ins and outs, I'd at least expect them to know the basics - that she was a Jewish girl who hid in an attic.

Ignorance is not an attractive quality in anyone.

I’m just going to wave politely on behalf of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa as non-European independent countries who were combatants in the conflict from 1939. (India may also have views but didn’t have independent foreign policy before their independence.)

Also worth remembering that talking about ‘the war in Europe’ forgets the fronts in Africa and the Middle East that existed well before either the USSR or the USA joined the Allies.

It’s really interesting to see the different ways people refer to the war in the Asia-Pacific, incidentally.

I think there is a huge difference between studying someone/something and knowing of them though. As myself and so many others have stated you pick up knowledge elsewhere. Think of all the different programmes that have mentioned Anne Frank, as well as the ones mentioned she definitely was mentioned in The Fault in Our Stars so there is a different audience again. As to the dates again they are covered and mentioned in so many films and documentaries and news articles it just seeps into your brain.
As to the idea that before the national curriculum teachers chose what bits of history they wanted to teach, no they didn't, they taught history that was covered on the exam board your school used.

I vaguely remember her father being on TV, I think it was Blue Peter, and I have read the dairy twice, once as a child and again as an adult.

I never did WWII in history so could easily have missed her.

I'll say it again. I don't judge for not knowing. If people think you are judging them for not knowing something, they won't admit to ignorance and may then not find out what they want or need to know.
I do judge if they then, having realised there is a gap in their knowledge, make no effort to find out.
You can't know everything, and if you have never heard of Anne Frank you are not going to know you should have heard of her. But if you then do come across her name, you should do at least some very basic research to inform yourself - it wouldn't take long to pick up at least the minimum info.

i think even if you had somehow avoided knowing much about ww2 - quite an accomplishment for a brit in their 50s, youve also managed to avoid taking in any information about amsterdam- presumably no travel shows/documentaries/articles/reviews. thats proper ignorance really.

Just found the Otto Frank interview on youtube. Going to watch it now.

It was broadcast a few months before I was born which explains why I have no memory of it!

I also think the 'I didn't learn it at school' is a red herring. You won't learn everything at school - there simply isn't time. What school should do is teach you how to learn - to be curious, how to track down information, how to assess the information critically and fit it into what you already know, how to judge the source to see if it is likely to be accurate etc.
Lots (the vast majority I would say) of schools try and do this but I don't think the new 'fact-packed- curriculum helps at all. There's much more rote learning and less critical thinking. Which is a shame because however many facts you pack in you are not going to learn everything, and to the detriment of students being able to find out for themselves.

I notice that the list includes King Arthur, and I think the jury is still out on whether he actually existed at all!

You’d have to be horrifically thick or to have parachuted in from another solar system not to have encountered Anne Frank as an element in general knowledge, even if your knowledge only extended to her being a Jewish girl in hiding during WWII

I don't think so. Just because something Is of particular emportance to you or generally well known does not make others 'horrifically thick' or 'parachuted from another solar system' not to have heard of Anne Frank. I'm sure there are plenty of things you / other posters don't know that others would be rather surprised you don't know

Wow. Yes he 100% should have heard of her. Even if only the basics. That is strange to me. But hey, like you say, go and he can learn first hand. Definitely book though, the queue is insane if you have't!!!

I have also now watched an interview with Eva Schloss which is on Youtube and she made the same point that I made earlier talking about child refugees. She is still angry with the countries who could have taken more Jewish people in and didn't, and she sees now countries refusing to take Syrian children and she thinks "It's all happening again."
That's why this is all so important. It's not a history lesson - it's happening now to children in our world and there are people in this country who will go on national radio and say "Yes, but we need to look after our own."

Of course people should know, but of course I'm not surprised that people don't. Being ignorant and proud of it has been a trait of British culture since I was a child in the 80s.

for those wanting to know more about the nazi occupation of holland and the resistance, i recommend 'cut out girl' by bart van ees.(?) its a wonderful book and i learnt a lot.

Ah yes I remember the Grace Darling story from Blue Peter as well. Biddy Baxter is a legend of out of school education.

Anyway.....

If you are going to Anne Frank's house, I can wholeheartedly recommend this place on the same street.

pancake.nl/en

I hate this idea that all education happens at school and if you weren't taught a specific subject then ignorance of it is totally acceptable

But you can't possibly know everything. OK I know about Anne Frank but I used to read a lot of history books for fun from primary school onwards.

But I'm not great on popular culture and I probably don't know things about say Game of Thrones or Friends that "everyone" knows because I've never watched them (or read the books in the case of GoT).

Who gets to decide what goes on the list of things you magically should know through osmosis even if it's not covered at school? I am often surprised at peoples' lack of geographic knowledge but I like reading/looking at maps.

Being ignorant and proud of it has been a trait of British culture since I was a child in the 80s Has it? I can't say I've noticed unless it's to do with foreign languages or Maths.

I remember a few years ago, in our local library, one of the school mums, there with her two daughters, spotted me and said " Ooh, bet you'll know, who wrote Anne Frank's Diary? The girls want to read it." I said " Erm...Anne Frank!" She looked surprised and said "Oh, I didn't know she was a real person."

youve also managed to avoid taking in any information about amsterdam- presumably no travel shows/documentaries/articles/reviews. thats proper ignorance really

Is it? I've never been to Amsterdam so I've never read a travel guide about it.

I read the travel section of the newspaper every weekend but I only read the articles about the places that interest me, and even then it more or less goes in one ear and out the other. I watch things like Michael Portillo's Great European Railway Journeys but again it tends to go in one ear and out the other. You need to go to places for things to really stick.

I know Amsterdam has pretty buildings, canals and bikes and that's about it. Likewise I know Lisbon has steep hills and trams. On the other hand I've been to Rome, Paris, Helsinki, Copenhagen and Berlin multiple times each so the things I've learnt about those cities stick including when I read them because I can link them to places I've seen.

Yes I'm very surprised and adult wouldn't know about her

yeah its pig-shit ignorant- which isnt to say that ops dh isnt a nice man- he might be very lovely in other ways.

Has it? I can't say I've noticed unless it's to do with foreign languages or Maths

It has and it is alive and well along with the similar strains of anti-intellectualism in the US. Sadly Mumsnet is generally a naice middle-class place where I suspect many people have no idea what it was like to grow up on a council estate in a post-industrial town. People aren't just ignorant, they are proud of it. They treat learning and expertise as something to be suspicious of and hostile towards. The fact that I studied hard and went to uni means I'm regarded as an outsider now in the place where I grew up. Deeply sad and one of the key contributers as to the mess we are in now in this country.