To ask for advice for NT DD dealing with comments about SN DS?

[BouncingOnATightrope]

DD (7) was upset about comments from other kids asking her why DS is weird, why her brother acts like a fool, why he pretends to be an animal etc etc. DS (10) has been assessed and borderline ASD, highly likely to have ADHD, dyspraxia. Wants to be friends with everyone, but everyone steers clear of him. Some of it is because the other children laugh, so he carries on etc.

He hugged and gave DD a kiss at break time. Another girl saw and laughed at her and kept on about it.

DD is quite sociable but feels a bit left out sometimes as we can't really invite kids over. For the past 4 years he's had therapy after school 3 times a week and she has to tag along and sit around. I can't take other kids out with us in case I have to chase him etc.

If I tell DS to stay away from DD at school, he'll be upset, won't understand why and be utterly alone. The children in DD's class are generally nicer and more willing to play with him than those in his class.

I'm not sure how to handle this and keep both happy.

My DS is 7 and tries to muscle in on Dad's play dates but we either take him out or do something with him while she has someone over. It would usually be at the weekend anyway.

Maybe it's really not possible but imho I'd be trying to agree for DH to take time off work sometimes for him to take ds to the therapy, even if occasionally. The reality of having a child/ren in any case, but even more so with SN means that work sometimes has to be compromised. So many mothers of children with SN have to totally give up or rethink their careers. Only fair that the dads contribute too.

Re school - does he have any formalised support? I'm assuming from what you've said no EHCP, but anything at all? It used to be called School Action or School Action Plus (not sure if it still is) I'd defer fighting for that if not - social difficulties are a barrier to learning and should get just as much support as if he had eg SEN like dyslexia. "Not fair to force other children to play with him"? Fuck that! Look on the SN board here if you haven't already - I haven't been on it for ages but it used to be and I'm sure still is hugely useful - will be tons of people who can give you strategies to argue your case with school.

Look on the SN board here if you haven't already
The SN board is very much the NT sibling has to suck it up and not do anything the SN sibling won't want to do whereas I want pointers for helping my NT child cope with questions etc at school.

He does have some hours with a TA but I'm not sure that covers break times.

So many mothers of children with SN have to totally give up or rethink their careers. Only fair that the dads contribute too.
Yes, it's why I'm a SAHM still, but it means all the more that DH has to be 100% present at his job. Which means he's not around to help out for appointments etc.

In my experience children at that age are pretty accepting of children who are ‘different’
The children in DD's class and above are pretty accepting of him. I think it's more the younger children coming though (mixed classes) who are asking. They don't know him like the older children do and I assume wonder why he acts younger than them.

Could you do some play dates for you dd at the weekend and dh take ds out for a bit?

My BIL has SN. DH is the older sibling though so the dynamic would be slightly different as he's always been very protective of him.
2 things MIL did that I think made a huge difference for DH; BIL went to a different school (this was a SN school though) and DH went to scouts without his brother.
DH has friends round to play, the good ones understood and stuck around (30 years later some of them). They were kind to BIL and still are now, they socialise together sometimes.
I don't think I agree with not telling a child their diagnoses, it doesn't seem fair.
Your DD should be able to say that her DB is a little different as he has ASD.
The school should be addressing any unkind behaviour.

Could you try to get him not to hang around your DD at school, or if he can't understand that then ask the teachers/TAs? He's going to destroy her chance at making her own friendships and just being a normal child at school - it's clear that outside of school her needs come second (understandably) but PLEASE let her have one place where it's ok to be herself without looking after her SEN sibling.

I'd discuss diagnosis with ds and dd. Iv three with different diagnoses and have always discussed it with them from 3/4 onwards. It's been part of our general daily chit chat. Youngest asks why eldest takes tablets every morning so we just say his brother has adhd which gives him a race car brain with no breaks and tablets put breaks on to help him slow thoughts down

We also send oldest one to afteschool club without siblings couple days a week

Your dh needs to take time off work to facilitate your dd having friends over. Or you need to invite them at the weekend when he is at home, or take dd and a friend out for a day. You can’t just say it isn’t possible, it’s essential and not negotiable any more than ds’ therapy is.

I wouldn’t go along with not telling ds his diagnosis (ds and I both have asd). But neither would I disclose his diagnosis to other children without his consent. I would centre your dd’s response around ‘everyone is different’ and ‘please don’t be unkind about my brother’.

www.sibs.org.uk/

This might have some useful resources for you, op.

mulledwine I agree with everything you've just said.

DH contributing to the family is more than just bringing money in.

Also good idea about arranging weekend play dates for dd.

And great response for dd to give to school friends

Wrt to school support - the TA's hours can absolutely be used for social support! That's exactly what we used ds's EHCP hours for at primary - he needed no academic/classroom support, it was all about his social difficulties (which is after all one of the defining things about asd...). Was a fight to successfully argue this, admittedly, as schools are usually so entrenched in thinking TA=classroom support, and there's no real training given for expert social intervention for TAs (ie it's harder/more expensive), but you can definitely argue your case here.

What kind of therapy is your DS having and does it need to be 3 nights a week? After a full day of school having 3 nights taken up with that sounds a lot for both DD and DS. Could you reduce to 2 days therapy, 2 days DDs activities and 1 day at home after school where DD can have play dates?

I think the harsh reallty is that your situation massively needs to change for your DD. You can't keep doing what you're doing because eventually, she'll end up resenting you and her brother for it. I was your DD many years ago, and I still feel the impact over 20 years later.

Firstly. Your husband is just going to have to be around more. When you have a SN child, you have to be more flexible. He should be taking him to appointments a lot more so DD has one on one time with you/has friends over. Or staying home with her so you can take him. She should not be dragged around half the week for appointments which are tedious enough when it's you that's having them. Similarly, he shouldn't be dragged to her hobbies. They need time apart.

DD needs it to be a priority she has 1 on 1 time with her dad, her mum and has the chance to have friends over without her brother interfering (as bad as this sounds). I personally think them attending different schools would be beneficial as she deserves the opportunity to make friends and not always have to talk about her brother to everyone. School should be her escape and where she's known for being her- not x's sister. I barely mentioned my brother in school because I hated explaining the situation. I hated the questions. The looks of pity. Sounds bad- but it's the truth.

As she gets older, itll become incredibly important she has her own space and her own life. My brother's autism became unbearable from 11 to 15. Awful tantrums. I was hurt all the time. Things constantly broken or smashed. Seeing my parents get hurt. Etc. If my mum hadn't focused on me doing stuff own my own, seeing friends lots, my dad taking me to my hobby and my mum spending lots of 1 on 1 time with me, I absolutely wouldn't have wanted to be there anymore. Even with all her effort, it was still fucking hard.

To this day, I still feel second best. And my mum honestly did an excellent job. She really tried her best to make it as fair as possible. But the dynamic will always be skewed to your sibling's needs being more important than yours. I know I sound harsh, and you are doing your best, but just have a think about what I've said.

As I've said, I've lived it (albeit with severe autism). I know how it can go. And what I'm saying isn't PC. It's not what you're "supposed" to think or say. But it's my truth. And it's the truth of many others in similar situations. It's always worth considering.

pepepig what do you think could have been different for you? You said your mum tried her best. What else could she or your dad (or anyone else) have done differently? I'm not trying to be provocative, just really want to understand as it would help me, and of course OP and probably others on this thread. Like the OP many of us are in this situation (with varying degrees of severity of SN) - all of us trying to do our best for all our children, and as I'm sure you know from your own experience, little or no day-to-day support from outside! It's useful to hear from your perspective.

Your dh needs to take time off work to facilitate your dd having friends over.
Seriously?!? Do you actually know anyone in the real world who does this or is it just an of course, that's what I would do in that situation...

At the moment there is no option for them to go to different schools. There will be in three years though.

She should not be dragged around half the week for appointments which are tedious enough when it's you that's having them. Similarly, he shouldn't be dragged to her hobbies.
Surely this is part of normal family life, that siblings get dragged to other siblings activities until they're old enough to go alone or stay at home?

It’s a dramatic solution and I don’t know if it’s realistic where you live but my sons’ school has specialist autism provision for children who are able to access the mainstream classroom (which sounds like your son if he’s at a mainstream school currently) but also benefit from more specialist provision. My observation is that this means all the children are much more aware and accepting of autism.

It isn't easy, I know Dd2 got annoyed by her sister hanging around her, thankfully they often weren't at the same school, just a couple of years due to school change timetables here. But as they got older dd2 really stepped up, offered to go to sixth form in another city so she could help her sister at university (dd1 doesn't eat unless prompted, actually she stayed living with me for university) and recently offered to have her sister move in with her when she graduates so I can have my own life (we won't let her, it's not fair, DD's dad will have her, his turn!)

I've read through this, and I still don't understand why DD can't have friends home for a play date. Surely you can entertain DS while she plays with a friend in her bedroom for a few hours? If you really can't manage this alone, could you buy in help occasionally? ( local teen to act as a mother's help?)

It’s a dramatic solution and I don’t know if it’s realistic where you live but my sons’ school has specialist autism provision for children
I'm not sure what you mean. He has a TA and is in class with the other children.

why DD can't have friends home for a play date.
Mainly because we're never home. 3 x therapy and 2 x DD activities mean we're only him if one is cancelled. As I said, if something is cancelled she gets to choose what we do.

As she gets older, itll become incredibly important she has her own space and her own life. My brother's autism became unbearable from 11 to 15. Awful tantrums. I was hurt all the time. Things constantly broken or smashed
Thanks for this insight, it's something to think about. I did instigate a "need to ask permission to go into DD's room" a year or so ago after he hit her, then got annoyed when she didn't want to play with him 5 minutes later. All the rooms also have locks on them although I've hidden the keys for now.

Why can't she have playdates at weekends?

In a similar situation with dd6 and my ds who is 5 and is autistic. She has a named teacher at school as a buddy who she can talk to with worries. Our LD service has a sibling group but u think she has to be 8yo to access it.

@BouncingOnATightrope
I feel for you and your kids op because I too could write your post, I have a dd who is 10 and a ds who is 8 diagnosed asd and we have the same problems. My daughter is daily told her brother is a 'nutter' why is he not normal. Why does he need help, why is he on reduced time table, your family are all freaks you name it she's had it.

I've spoke to school and unlike you I'm fortunate that my dd is the older kid and understands his brothers autism however she is in tears almost daily at being berated because of him. Everything he does is reported to her instead of a teacher. I'm gutted for her.

The school are very active on it and are quick to deal with the kids by talking and explaining that it's not on to be constantly at my dd, but in my heart, I know this is awful, some days I wish ds was at a different school so my dd didn't have to put up with this.

My younger dd is completely oblivious at the moment but I know that will change probably soon as they are only a year apart.

I don't really have much advice for you other than to say your not alone so I'm sending you hugs x

“It’s a dramatic solution and I don’t know if it’s realistic where you live but my sons’ school has specialist autism provision for children.

I'm not sure what you mean. He has a TA and is in class with the other children.”

Maybe wouldn’t suit your son then. I mean that for children with autism who can access the mainstream classroom at least part of the time but also benefit from time away for now specialist support my children’s school has specialist provision within the school (separate rooms and an outside area). It also means the school has gained a reputation for being good with SEN and I think even for children on the autism spectrum who are in the mainstream classroom all the time (like your son) benefit from all the pupils being much more aware and accepting.

But I know not every area might have schools like that or you might not live close enough / your son’s needs might not entitle him to a place.

Well, DS does get taken out of the class for some lessons e.g. maths. But whilst his class know this and are aware of his difficulties, the younger ones probably aren't aware. It's not a very large school, DS's year group is the largest with 25 children and the smallest year group I think has 17. There aren't any other schools here, it's quite rural!

Everything he does is reported to her instead of a teacher. I'm gutted for her.
Yes, this is happening to her As if she didn't have enough to deal with...

@BouncingOnATightrope

Yes, I think my dd always looks so deflated now. She ends up frustrated and sometimes just doesn't get a break at all.

I'm watching your thread as I think my dd and myself could do with the same advice your looking for xx