WARNING: POSSIBLY TRIGGERING - To wonder how abusive clergymen reconcile what they do with their faith?

[Equanimitas]

Prompted by the Peter Ball programmes. This is a man who has studied theology, who allegedly had deep faith, yet he massively abused young men who trusted him for years, probably decades, and did his best to cover it up. He surely must have known he had done his best to ruin their lives. Could he really have thought that was going to be OK with his God and in accordance with the teachings of his church? Would he have closed his eyes to it? How could he carry on going to church and leading prayers in those circumstances?

I've thought about this often. The two scenarios I've come up with are that the person doesn't actually have the faith that they claim to have, or else they think that the rules only apply to other people. Having known many many religious hypocrites in my time (alongside many very genuine non hypocritical religious people) I'm guessing it's mostly the latter.

Some people choose positions of power because they are abusive and want to be able to take advantage. Some people have no real faith. I am Catholic and I believe those who have abused others and those who have covered it up will be punished. I am confident though that things have changed now and we have good safeguarding practices in place. But the wounds will take years to heal.

There's also the issue of the number of people in the church who helped to cover it up, even in the face of clear evidence. Do they believe that the greater good of the church is more important than actually following its tenets?

Do they believe that the greater good of the church is more important than actually following its tenets?

I would imagine so. The church loses all authority if people don't trust it. I've always felt that the mistake that the Catholic Church made so spectacularly was in thinking that owning up to 'bad things' would make it lose authority and trust, when in actual fact it was the covering up that made people distrust it.

They're not proper Christians. Jesus's main teaching in the bible is about love and actually he denounces the hierarchy/church leaders of the time. He emphasises the importance of faith and love... so for me these men are like terrorists who claim to be Muslim. They're not proper muslims and these men are not proper Christians.

The thing I struggle with is why God allows this to happen, particularly by people working in his name.

Oh and people cover up abuse in all circles. I was at a gym club with a pedophile and I reported him

The amount of people who wouldnt come forward and claimed it was a load of nonsense in the face of evidence (many saw with their own eyes) but unbelievable.
One 10 year said about him touching her (wont go into detail I dont want to be triggering) and her mum said kick him next time?!

Paedophilia is in my opinion a mental illness. Anyone who can find a child attractive sexually isn’t right in the head. I doubt this clergyman could think logically or have any sort or realistic perspective about his actions and his relationship with God. Also I think a lot of folk are for long intents and purposes “Sunday morning Christians”.

@Nutrionalplanning because god isn’t real.

They don’t have a faith. The church is only a vehicle for them to get to their victims.

The church as an organisation is separate from faith. I think that like many or even all organisations the good of the organisation itself takes over from the original objective. There is a difference between religion and church; many church members love the church but don’t really have strong faith, in my experience, they just want to belong to something. Church leaders are people who want to lead something.

There are sociopaths in every profession. They don't think in the same way as the majority do and have an immense sense of entitlement unimpeded by an internalised sense of right and wrong together with an ability to justify their actions solely in their own terms, ' asking for it ', God wants me to . . .' So they are untroubled by conscience or faith. See C4, Catching a Killer for perfect example.

They don't have a faith they are using their profoundly abuse people ,there are abusers in every walk of life who do this .

These sort of people know the power it gives them also protects them from scrutiny
The program last night was shocking and the events seem so recent.

Maybe a combination - they don’t have faith and perhaps they also see the church as a career.

A bit simplistic, but when you read Jane Austen books and others there are characters who have gone into the clergy because they were the second son and so wouldn’t inherit.

Maybe for a certain generation the clergy was just a career move.

Dress yourself up in a sheet at 11am on a Wednesday morning, leave your house, walk down the street, stop at the lamppost next to the bus stop, get down on your knees and pray to the god of the light.

People will think you are a nuts.

Dress yourself up fancy clothes at 11am on a Sunday morning, leave your house, walk down the street, stop outside your local church, go inside, kneel down and pray to God in Heaven.

Perfectly fine and well done you !

Fiddling with kids has nothing to do with the bizarre behaviours exhibited above.

Power*

And although not a member of the clergy ,look at one of the most prolific Paedophiles in Uk history Jimmy saville he raised millions for charity I doubt he really gave a shit about the charities but it was a means to an end he was a larger than life personality ,national treasure etc he got away with doing what he did because of who he was , and all the millions he raised .

There are psychopaths in every walk of life, so sadly, it's no surprise they're in the Church/Mosque/every other faith organisation. The fact the Church is full of dressing up, mystery and suspension of belief must add to the ability to groom and abuse children or vulnerable adults.

What is truly shocking is the extent to which powerful men, including P Charles, aided and abetted Peter Ball in avoiding prosecution. It's been a depressing week, with the publication of the Manchester organised abuse inquiry and this documentary on Peter Ball. Perpetrators continue to just get away with it, whilst victims are subjected to bullying, emotional abuse and blame.

Peter Ball was a sick sex predator. In some ways it’s the cover up conducted by the Church that is even more shocking. It’s been the same story in every organisation investigated in the Enquiry in to sexual abuse; it was well known within each organisation and yet it continued.

Beyond depressing and sickening.

The Truth Project is listening to and recording the testimony of dozens of victims and it is, apparently, like listening to the same story over and over again.

The thing is it's a but like asking how abusers reconcile abusing people with their conscience.

They don't.

I think in order to abuse someone in the first place you have to care only about yourself. You have to have complete a sense of entitlement and absolutely no sense of other. It's psychopathy. They don't reconcile their behaviour at all.

They may have faith, they may not. A position in the clergy ultimately gives you power and access to lots of vulnerable people, it's the ideal job for an abuser and I don't think faith comes into it.

Because they are disgusting hypocrites

The church report on P Ball is littered with cover ups, obfuscations and don't believe yous.And don't forget his twin brother - also a clergyman - allowed P Ball to impersonate him and take services afterwards. Highly dubious that faith will stop an abuser or indeed a group.

The sort of people who sexually abuse children love to use the church as a veil of respectability.

The Catholic Church is the biggest, most well organised child-abuse network in the world.
~awaits deletion is spite of stating the bloody obvious~