Who is being unreasonable (if anyone)

[PTAnightmare20]

Both PTA members are governors, chair of PTA is also chair of Govs.

In short, a member of the PTA was asked for emergency funds by the school to support a family in crisis, committee member expressed that she didn't know if the funds could be used that way but an emergency meeting would need called ASAP as it needs a full committee to agree before it could happen. School stated they thought they might have other options and would get back to committee member. Committee member told another committee member (the other person in this scenario) who texted and emailed everyone to discuss.

In the meantime school contacted chair and explained the situation in more detail owing to the chairs others responsibilities, explained they wanted £500 to purchase things which needed to be bought in the next hour. Chair felt this was a lot of money and instead went shopping for the items herself with the PTA card which is in their name as chair of the committee. Items came to under £400.

Chair took items into school and saw the other committee member and explained what they had done. Committee member was not happy, said they had no right to touch funds without prior committee approval. chair expressed that card was in their name and they couldn't see a family in such crisis with money sitting there and they had donated items to the raffle which amounted to a few hundred pounds so if they felt so strongly then just think they did it themselves. Committee member feels it was very wrong to take the funds without seeking committee approval in any circumstances and also feels that the request isn't what the constitution and association was set up to do.

There has been fallout from it, but without trying to make it too long, that's the situation.

Who is right? Is chair right because no family should be felt with nothing, there was money there, they are chair after all and have funded things for the PTA.

Or

Is committee member right that the chair had no right to touch funds without prior committee approval and it doesn't matter what the funds are for.

We are aware some PTAs do have funds set aside for emergencies that can be sought quickly and while this wasn't in place at the time it is likely that it will be put in the place in the future.

I'm not sure about how PTAs work but this person is grossly in breach of her role on the PTA. I think the governor thing is a bit of a red herring as she hasn't done anything as a governor, in this instance - so reporting her to anyone for that is a little premature.

The PTA thing needs sorting out asap (again, I don't know how) and the once she's found guilty or whatever the term is, she should be expected to resign from the Board of Governors as she isn't a suitable person any longer. You could flag the issue to the Local Authority now (if its a maintained school) or the trustees if its an academy. Hopefully she will do the decent thing and resign from both once a little pressure is applied....

You are completely right to keep on with this - it needs to be completely above board and appropriate, and you do need to get your procedures clearly documented going forwards. Well done you.

I would contact the local authority and let them know what's going on. They are ultimately responsible, I believe, and I have contacted them myself in a case similar to this and they were very helpful at escalating and dealing with it.

There should be no reason to have a card in anyones name , you should only deal on cheques that require 2 out of a possible 3 signatures .If you need to purchase anything from someone who wont accept cheques then a cheque will need to be cashed for the exact amount and an invoice / receipt provided.No money to be spent unless discussed and minuted at an official meeting attended by an agreed minimum of committee members
Each official committee post should last a set number of years , normally secretary and treasurer serve 3 years and the Chair only 1 year

I'd be surprised if you could get a chequebook these days for the sort of account that a PTA would be using. Our bank changed us to online payments years ago, and they didn't allow us to withdraw cash either. Which was a nightmare any time we wanted to stage an event...

I have never heard of PTA money being spent in this way. Parents donate to a PTA in the expectation that the money is spent in the school to benefit all pupils.

The head was very wrong to ask the PTA to spend its money on this, however needy the family. And the chair was wrong to spend outside the PTA's remit (especially that large amount) without the consent of the committee.

I would recommend you speak to the Local Authority, and make sure you’re clear the timelines for all this including who asked whom and when. The LA should escalate and get involved.

I’ve been on a school PTA and governors. The chair of PTA should not be the chair of Governor’s as this could be a conflict of interest. I think the chair needs to step down immediately and the school need to be disciplined as well. They’re out of line to put pressure on anyone on the PTA to spend that sort of money at such short notice for something clearly benefitting only one family. That’s not the purpose of the PTA funds as far as I believe. The purpose of the PTA is to raise funds for the whole school, to enhance the education of all pupils, not just for one family. That’s what social services are for.

The Chair should stand the loss, and try to raise funds to cover the outlay. The PTA money is for the school, not individuals, and the committee must take a vote on how it is spent.

Crazy that people are being so blase about the finances given the previous fraud problems

I think I'd step down in an attempt to a) make sure my kids didn't end up on the receiving end of any bad feeling and b) distance myself from any repercussions. The chair doesn't sound like someone you want to be involved with or on the wrong side of (if the school are always supporting her) so let her dig her own hole. But I'm a bit of wimp so that may be terrible advice!

They should have had committee approval otherwise anyone could spin a sob story and all the funds could end up depleted. There are other places to get crisis loans, pta money is for school related items, otherwise people will stop giving.

Is your PTA members of PTA+ (www.pta.co.uk)? You could contact them for advice. Or speak with the accountant who did your recent audit - I can't imagine they'd be able to easily sign off this transaction!
Who provides your PTA insurance. If the local authority, then I'd get in touch with them.

I think that it's vital that your raise this officially. The school obviously has a culture of inappropriate financial processes which is to the detriment of the children.

Former PTA treasurer here and former CoG too.

CoG/CoPTA appears to be WELL out of line. Part of CoG role is holding school finances to account, and if CoG thinks that ANY of this was acceptable I’d be very doubtful that she’s appropriately doing that. Boundaries can become very blurred when personally involved with a school.

Your PTA should have a Terms of Reference or constitution type document. Ie what you are raising funds from. Tbh in the PTA I was treasurer for there was some debate about the Yr6 party, but was felt that every child (almost) would benefit in the end so it was ok. There would be NO point where we’d have considered donating PTA funds to help one family. We have previously launched an appeal for a family who had lost everything to a fire, but that was a very specific and obvious separate campaign and everyone knew what the item they were donating was going to.

If you are an LA school, or the LA provide governance support I’d speak to them, there are some really serious issues here and the Chair doesn’t appear to have the foresight to appropriately govern.

*funds for, not from.

If you’re an Academy you need to speak to the board of trustees pronto. And possibly OFSTED.

If you’re not then the LA.

Good luck. Sounds like a complete mess.

If your a formal board then you can ALL get charge with fraud.

This is madness.

At our school you can't be on the PTA and a governor due to conflict of interest. Chair is 100% in the wrong and you should definitely report her.

funds are to be used to benefit the entire school or a group of target pupils, not for a family.

It will be written in their constitution.

Thanks everyone.

We do have a constitution, and in my opinion this wasn't something we were able to fund However they don't seem to understand that, school and chair say we are schools charity and therefore must help in these circumstances .

Things escalated again this morning. I received an email off head (probably should add I'm secretary) saying that he and chair had a meeting this morning and here was the agenda for a meeting in a few days time. We must have a weeks notice usually, but we were supposed to have a coffee meeting type thing, just informal to discuss how everyone was feeling.

Head had created an agenda with chair, including points like treasurer to do full financial report and dissolving the PTA. There are other points too, including mediation with head. Which given him showing sides, seems a completely pointless exercise and he hasn't spoken to us for weeks so has no idea what our opinion is.

I plan to email and say something brief like "give the agenda being written by you and chair, I suggest you or chair spend it out".

I really feel sick, I'm so scared what this impact will be on my children at the school. Waiting for some legal advice from our insurance before I do anything, I need to calm down.

Good luck to you and in your shoes I'd step away.

As a parent donating to the PTA for the benefit of the whole school this would not sit well with me.

A family's crisis on this scale is the responsibility of social services not the limited PTA funds.

You can’t just spend money raised for one purpose on another.

We have had families in crisis, true crisis, like homes burned down, and fundraisers at the school have been arranged very quickly.

There are also specific drives to help out Anonymous school families in need at Christmas.

And we do fundraisers for specific goals for poorer schools.

Those all have to be done separately because any money that goes into the pta fund has to be used for our school.

Can you make it clear (in writing) that cuz are your concerns but you're really not trying to be difficult or cause trouble for any individuals, you are just worried that everyone involved may be inadvertently implicating themselves in another fraud mess and you want to protect all involved in the school from that. Maybe say that if they feel you are incorrect and being too officious then you'd rather step down than spoil your relationship with the school?

Meant to say 'that xyz are your concerns', not cuz!

I have no idea about how PTAs work in practice, but as a parent I would expect that any funds raised by the PTA is used by the school for the benefit of all children and not for one one family, however much hardship they are in. That seems wrong to me as there are many other sources of help for families in hardship which can be accessed. From a set up and governance point of view I would expect there to be a terms of reference clearly outlining the purpose of the PTA and what it does with its funds. Without that the chair and the committee are open to all sorts of problems.

The chair has put the PTA as a whole in a very awkward position.

Thanks all. The original committee member sent me her resignation and I'm writing mine.

I have sought more legal advice, things are as bad as I and others suspect. I'm in a difficult position but I carry equal legal responsibility so as they are unwilling to see the situation for what it is, there is no way I can stay.

I agree you should step away. But do keep the doorbell footage of the chair harrassing you.

I've already saved it 😄

Have you not raised the alarm with the LA or ofsted??

By all means resign. But REPORT