Who is being unreasonable (if anyone)

[PTAnightmare20]

Both PTA members are governors, chair of PTA is also chair of Govs.

In short, a member of the PTA was asked for emergency funds by the school to support a family in crisis, committee member expressed that she didn't know if the funds could be used that way but an emergency meeting would need called ASAP as it needs a full committee to agree before it could happen. School stated they thought they might have other options and would get back to committee member. Committee member told another committee member (the other person in this scenario) who texted and emailed everyone to discuss.

In the meantime school contacted chair and explained the situation in more detail owing to the chairs others responsibilities, explained they wanted £500 to purchase things which needed to be bought in the next hour. Chair felt this was a lot of money and instead went shopping for the items herself with the PTA card which is in their name as chair of the committee. Items came to under £400.

Chair took items into school and saw the other committee member and explained what they had done. Committee member was not happy, said they had no right to touch funds without prior committee approval. chair expressed that card was in their name and they couldn't see a family in such crisis with money sitting there and they had donated items to the raffle which amounted to a few hundred pounds so if they felt so strongly then just think they did it themselves. Committee member feels it was very wrong to take the funds without seeking committee approval in any circumstances and also feels that the request isn't what the constitution and association was set up to do.

There has been fallout from it, but without trying to make it too long, that's the situation.

Who is right? Is chair right because no family should be felt with nothing, there was money there, they are chair after all and have funded things for the PTA.

Or

Is committee member right that the chair had no right to touch funds without prior committee approval and it doesn't matter what the funds are for.

We are aware some PTAs do have funds set aside for emergencies that can be sought quickly and while this wasn't in place at the time it is likely that it will be put in the place in the future.

Aren't governors bound by rules, some sort of fit and proper behaviour, not bringing the role into disrepute type thing? She should really be reported to whoever the board of governors are answerable to, because her behaviour in her other role as PTA chair has damaged her credibility as a governor.

I agree and I personally believe it to be misappropriation of funds. Having sat on a staff disciplinary were members of staff were dismissed for similar circumstances I'm just at a loss why it's not being taken seriously. Obviously she didn't benefit from it, although I seriously have no idea what was purchased but I feel it's serious.

chair expressed that card was in their name

Just re-read and noticed this. At work our company credit card is in the finance director's name, but it doesn't mean he single handedly decides what it's used for...

Obviously she didn't benefit from it

Unless she bought the items at a shop owned by her husband /mum/sister, in which case she might have...

@isabellerossignol - that's my concern. Should I? Part of me is scared and not sure if I'm make it a compliant via vice chair or what I do. I have kids in the school with additional needs so I don't want this to blow up and affect them. I moved for this school.

I really just want her to understand and move on, I feel school will cover her, they tried to say they spoke to another committee member before she went but I had spoken to that member first and she said they told her after. But I worry she would change her story if school add pressure, however, it still needed discussed rather than asked off cuff like that. So either way I still feel the same.

What are significant Freud issues?

A typo for fraud issues I assume.

@isabellerossignol the items were purchased at a normal national shop, not one know for particular cheap items though but no benefit to get that way, but I suppose cynically I don't know she didn't just do her Christmas shopping and say she handed items over as we never saw the items or receipt yet.

Most PTAs don't even have such easy access to funds, it was discussed and we all felt that rules were in place so it was fine, two cards in two names. We have all used the card but we also knew what we were all doing and buying whereas this time we didn't know until after the fact.

Haha! Yes sorry, messaging on my phone and it keeps scrolling up. Fraud. School was investigated, three members of staff implicated.

they had donated items to the raffle which amounted to a few hundred pounds so if they felt so strongly then just think they did it themselves

This is the most concerning aspect, for me; a sign that the Chair has lost sight of all boundaries.

Committee member

This is just an awful situation and so very wrong. It's in black and white that any spend over £40 needs approving, there's no transparency, the urgency for that another of money is a massive red flag (within the hour? You're (she's) telling me that they couldn't borrow a couple of duvets/air mattresses and made do for a day or two?

I have no idea how you go about resolving it if everybody in a position of power is going with it.

I’m treasurer for a scout group so a similar kind of set up eg not a proper registered charity but does have an exec committee with trustees etc
Any payment needs to have 2 signatures to authorise a payment. We have a business account with online banking but no debit card as that only needs one person to use.
We have a financial policy which I have drafted since I took over as we didn’t have one before.
Any single item or group of related items (which your example would fall under) over £100 needs to be discussed with the exec and authorised. This doesn’t have to be at an official meeting, can just be done via text/email.
I’m curious as to how the bank account is in her name? Ours is in the name of the scout group, although is registered at my address.
We also run a system of reimbursement or I pay an invoice directly. Very occasionally money is advanced for a big purchase that can’t be paid for via bank transfer but generally we do not pay out any money without an invoice or receipt, each section (beavers, cubs, scouts has a petty cash tin with a small amount in for sundries and smaller receipts which i reconcile periodically.

I ask this question genuinely not knowing the answer. Is it a conflict of interest for the chair of the PTA to also be the chair of the governors?

@multivac I agree totally. You don't get to buy your way into decisions.

If she had the spare £400 she could have donated it privately (but even then, conflict of interest potential...).

I'm a bit out of my depth at this point because I'm assuming that you're in England? I'm in N Ireland, and I know what should be done here, but I know the whole set up of schools and who they are answerable to is different.

As hard as it is, yes, I think it should be reported. If for no other reason than self preservation. You are aware that something is amiss and I'm assuming that you have a duty to escalate it; it would look bad for you in future if this came to light and it was clear that you were aware of it but turned a blind eye.

I do sympathise. I ended up having to take legal advice to see how to safely extricate myself from PTA! Ours is a registered charity and the mismanagement of it was verging on criminal but the Chair just wouldn't be told.

Why do you think it is OK for the Chair to spend funds raised for supporting the education of the children in the school like this without getting the approval of the committee, @Chloemol?

I have been a Governor, and have served on various committees, including as treasurer, and I am sure that what the Chair has done is unethical, and might be misappropriation of funds (which can be a criminal offence).

We’re not talking £20 for child x to go on a school trip here, surely if the situation is this dire and extreme than the school should get social services involved who can then arrange for crisis funds etc through the normal channels?

Also as trustees you are ALL liable for any legal repercussions which is why it is so important to make sure that you have polices and procedures in place to lessen the risk of things like this happening.
For example normally the group scout leader is also a signatory on the bank accounts for scout but as I was already treasurer when DH took over as main leader it was decided (led by me) that he should have absolutely no access to the accounts at all, this lessens the risk to the group of us deciding to rebuke our conservatory or bigger off to the Bahamas with the groups money, but also ensures that we have not opened ourselve uo personally to accusations of misappropriation of group fund.

Bank account not in chairs name. The account is in the organisations name but two have two card holders for that account and their names are on the account.

@OutFoxxedByABadger - yes I'm unsure. But then I'm not privy to specifics although I know they have had social service involvement because they put that on Facebook.

As for her using her own money, she said something like, she knew I wouldn't be happy (I'm not a bitch honest but I do play by the rules so appreciate I can be a bit anal but given what has happened at the school it's for good reason), however, that she knew I wouldn't be happy and was prepared to use her own funds but because it came to less than the original 500 requested she figured it was good value so used the card.

Chair is in the wrong. Agree, you should resign and report.

@nocoolnamesleft I have heard PTA groups say that it never seen it written anywhere and I'm a bit of a freak for these things. I never really saw the issue until now, my governor rule has very little effect on my PTA role, but being chair of both clearly does. It never occurred to me until things went this way. There is no official rule but yes clearly in certain circumstances it is a conflict of interest.

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius

My error I thought it said who was right, and the committee member is right the chair should not have done this

Chair needs to resign, not you. Perhaps a vote of no confidence? The PTA is not there to furnish people's houses, no matter the straits they are in.