Asking permission for holiday

[PumpkinP]

I was planning to take my children on holiday but my ex is absent and apparently you need permission of the other parent to take a child on holiday. My sister thinks I’m worrying for no reason and that you don’t actually need permission, so has anyone actually ever been stopped from taking a child on holiday without permission?, I’ve never heard of anyone being stopped either tbh but have always heard that you can be stopped.

Thankfully some responding to this thread have been able to relate their own experiences of being stopped at a border. It does happen.

OP - fine if you don't want to contact the father. Just be aware that you're committing an offence infer the Child abduction Act (see here www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/37/section/1) by not getting the required consent, and you may be stopped from travelling.

Don't think for one moment that those who tell you you don't need consent know what they;re on about. They don't.

I personally think border controls will continue to tighten in future. I've been asked before now about my older girls as they have their dads surname. I've always travelled with a permission letter which means I've not had issues other than having to produce it.

I do have two younger children with my ex husband though who he isn't involved with but I would never want to contact him for permission. I also don't want to apply for a CAO because it opens the floodgates for him to start demanding contact which wasn't considered safe for my children when I threw him out 18 months back.

I do feel the UK needs to consider some kind of order which a RP can apply for after a certain time, demonstrating that they're the sole carer and the other parent isn't involved at all and this should enable them to get a CAO by default like the American system.

Although I'm not sure how you'd prove non involvement!

No permission needed. I travel with my kids all the time. They have different passports to mine (fathers country) and nobody ever mentioned anything at all.

@PumpkinP I think it’s more of a problem if you have different surnames and my ex used to taunt me over this all the time. In the end I just used to take the birth certificate plus a fake permission letter ‘signed’ by him. No-one ever even asked to see the letter. We’ve been to Spain twice, Turkey, Tunisia and France. Interpol haven’t caught up with me yet 😉

Tbh I’ve never been stopped. My dcs have a different surname than me AND different passports too. At most they’ve asked the dcs if I was their mum.

I've been stopped re-entering the country. Passports need to change to have both parents names on them. As it is right now, ex who shares DDs surname can take her abroad with whatever girlfriend and never be questioned whereas when me and DP so, we have to carry permission

Does anyone know what the statistics are re one parent abducting a child? I know its only anecdote, and I am sure a lot of cases don't get publicised but my impression from stories that you hear on the news is that more often it is father who is responsible. Given that even these days it is still more common that children have their father's name than their mother's, I wonder just how useful this obession with surnames that immigration officials seem to have is?
Certainly when I was stopped it seemed that was the trigger. That was the focus of questioning and once I had managed to persuade them that I was actually the mother they weren't interested in anything else. They didn't query where DH was or ask if I had his permission. The focus seemed very much on the fact that we didn't share a surname and other posters' experiences seem to be similar. I wonder if I had gone through the electronic channel and left DH with the boys whether there would have been an issue? I somehow got the impression that there wouldn't have been.

I think I might just sign the letter myself in case they ask for one

I was once stopped at Manchester Airport whilst flying with my son and husband who is the father of my son. I hadn't changed my passport since getting married so my surname was different to my sons. I was quaationed by passport Control and advised that if I ever travelled alone I would need my sons birth certificate to prove I was his mother. Makes sense I suppose.

@PumpkinP it's a criminal offence - and a serious one! - to take children out of the country without all those who have parental responsibility agreeing.

If he's a dickhead and he gets wind you've done that, he could make your life absolute hell if he goes after you for child abduction.

Don't lie, don't forge a letter. The repercussions could be very serious.

If you won't ask your ex to sign, then you need to speak to the CAB to see if they can provide you with something similar.

Holy fuck there's some shit advice on this thread.

Do you have a residence order? If so then yes you can holiday for 28 days without the other parents permission.

If not, you need their permission.

Simple. Or rather, not simple. I do have a residence order. I have been stopped at a border. It cost me about £200 to take my ex to court for a specific issue order to take the kids away, which the Judge then processed as a residence order.

Do it properly op. Its a right ballache but better than risking getting caught out.

It shouldn't be about surnames, I've got the same name as my nephews children but it doesn't mean I have the right to take them out of the country.

You have to experience the tragedy of a child being abducted to understand how terrible it is.

MAFIL I don't know the statistics but it happened in my family and the mother is a member of an organisation for parents whose children have been abducted and taken abroad. My impression from what she has told me is that it is a bigger problem than people realise. Mind you even one case is one too many.

My relative got no help from the UK govt, she went to the British Embassy in the country where they were and their response was basically what do you expect us to do about it.

I've got the same name as my children and husband, weve all been together and stopped. it's definitely happening more and more. Italy and Portugal are very strict.

MAFIL this link is a bit out of date www.gov.uk/government/news/parental-child-abduction-is-a-worldwide-problem

It says the child abduction section at the foreign office was dealing with 4 cases a day with more than half being new cases so hundreds of cases a year.

I think I might just sign the letter myself in case they ask for one

Please don't do this. I realize it's highly unlikely you'll be caught, but is it really worth the risk? Border agents have been known to ask children seemingly innocuous questions to solicit information.

No one has ever asked me for ex’s permission or, when he travels with them,asked for mine. I travel with birth certs as we have different names (they have ex’s name) but I’ve never been asked for them. DC have been asked for full names etc before but nothing more and in a pleasant way.

I agree it shouldn’t be about names though. And I question would good a letter does (although you absolutely mustn’t forge one!) because it could easily be forged.

However I also agree that there should be some sort of universal system because I’m in no doubt that, as with many things, I’m benefiting from being white, middle class and appear confident!

It’s not that my exh has ever not wanted them to go on hols with me, or vice versa,, but I’m not sure how a letter proves anything. They can always ring him though!

Sorry to hear about your family's experience 1forsorrow I hope there was a good outcome eventually.
Maybe I didn't express myself quite right. I wasn't disputing that this is a real problem, just wondering how the ratio of male vs female abductors stacks up against immigration processes which seem disproportionately suspicious of females.
When travelling with my husband and children, nobody, in any country, has ever asked whether I am their mother, despite the fact that we have different names, but on the one occasion I have entered the country without him (well, with him in a different queue) I was questioned at some length. When we have been travelling as a family it doesn't seem to cross anyone's mind that I couId in fact be his new girlfriend who was helping him abduct his children. Nobody has ever asked if I am their mother and if not, whether he has her permission to fly with the children. I had forgotten earlier, but DH actually has been abroad with one of our sons on his own once and again, no concerns raised. But as a woman with the audacity not to have changed her name to her husband's and apparently travelling alone with children (teenagers actually) I am apparently very suspicious.
How does this stack up against reality? I would have thought that a man travelling alone with children or a man with a woman with a different name are just as likely to be abductors, if not more so. Admittedly I don't look anything like my children who all have their father's skin tone and hair, but I don't look like their mother when we are all together either, and nobody has ever questioned if I might be an accomplice in an abduction plot then. The presence of a man with the same surname as the children seems to be seen as protective. I wonder if there is statistical evidence to support this, as the cases you see reported on the news seem, more often than not, to be a man taking his children out of the country against their mother's wishes rather than the other way round.
Clearly steps need to be taken to protect children, but in this day and age there must be better ways to identify those at risk than the fact their mother has a different surname?

Ive never asked my ex for permission to take my son away. Fuck that

How do the airport staff even know?

I took my son to Spain without his dad - not separated but how would they know either way!!

MAFIL no it wasn't really a happy ending, they were taken to a country where the norm is for girls to be married off as soon as legal and that is what happened.

There really does need to be something to stop this, it is such a tragedy. With all the electronic information on passports now surely something could be done e.g. a link to who can accompany them, both parents needing to approve it. Obviously if there is only one parent that would need to be catered for.

I know some people will object to having to answer questions but would they really refuse if they know the pain it can cause.

I mean an arranged marriage, not the girl choosing.

Oh that's dreadful 1forsorrow and yes, you would think that the electronic passports could be used to store this sort of information. It would make it safer for those children who are at risk and reduce inconvenience for those who are currently stopped unnecessarily so I would think that most people would be in favour. I guess the only issues would be around making sure that the information was regularly updated and there is a risk that those in abusive relationships could be coerced into agreeing to things that they didn't want to happen. I suppose that is possible now too, but if the family are physically stopped at the airport there is at least the potential for the child or the abused partner to be able to alert the immigration officials to their plight. Though maybe the children don't always realise that they are in danger? It is a very difficult thing, but there must be a better way of going about it than the current seemingly haphazard checks.

Thanks MAFIL, I'm sorry I didn't come back to you, stirred up alot of bad memories and I needed to leave it. I just thank God they weren't subjected to FGM, at least their father was more progressive than that. The sad thing was their mother wasn't against them learning about their father's culture but he wasn't happy to let them learn about their "English" side.