Burger King stupidity over its meat-free whopper

[Lycidas]

Why go to the effort of creating a meat-free burger only to cook it on the same grill as the others? Why limit your market to ‘people who are choosing a meatless option but don’t mind if it’s covered in meat juices?’ Seems incredibly shortsighted to me to overlook a large segment of the vegetarian/vegan markets.

www.burgerking.co.uk/menu-item/rebel-whopper

I’m a vegetarian and no I wouldn’t buy this.

However if demand IS high enough, and the only way they can test that is by offering the product, they might then invest in smaller flame grill broilers for veggie/vegan stuff, if the market can support it.

The trouble is, they’re not offering a veggie/vegan product for the market test to be meaningful.

I dont get why its an issue. the grill is clean.
the only issue would be allergies perhaps

They are - they suspect (and i think they are right) that the real market is meat eaters who want to reduce meat consumption and feel 'healthier' whilst still eating a burger.

That market is FAR bigger than the vegan market.

If that market will sustain re-equipping kitchens, and there is demand for them to do that.. then they will do it.

There really is no sense in not just investing in a new product but also new equipment and kitchen redesign/refit, BEFORE any sort of market test of that product!

@SlowSigh

I think you're wrong there and that's a very unfortunate way of looking at it. Many vegan things are packaged in the same environment as non vegan things. That's why many products that are labelled vegan will simultaneously advise caution for egg allergy sufferers.

Many restaurants store vegan ingredients alongside non vegan ingredients. Many vegans live with non vegans and don't keep seperate pots and pans or plates.

Cross contamination is almost inevitable to some degree unless you exclusively grow your own food, so for almost every vegan or vegetarian, it's about where your individual threshold lies.

For example, I wouldn't eat food off the same plate that had meat on it at the time but I equally don't really care if I use the same frying pan that another family member made an omelette in that morning, even though it might theoretically have microscopic egg particles on it. This doesn't make me "not a vegan or vegetarian".

Veganism for many is about boycotting things with animal products in them, but many of us accept that we live in a world where vegan and non vegan food is prepared, stored, processed and packaged alongside one another and it is virtually impossible to guarantee complete avoidance of microscopic cross contamination.

I don't think that makes people not vegan or not vegetarian because if it did, very few people would actually be "real" vegans.

I dont get why its an issue. the grill is clean.

It’s cooked on a meat grill. The burgers come into contact with meat.

@unbaffled

Not my fast food restaurant but there's no space or plugs for a George Foreman grill in most kitchens. Not to mention how long cooking each pattie would take.

I don't agree with cooking veggies and meat products on the same grill/same vats.

They got rid of the spicy bean burger? That's shit!

I agree it’s mostly aimed at flexible eaters who just fancy a veggie burger. But PETA has urged vegans to accept this sort of cross contamination as it’s still a positive step forward.

If you’re vegan I hope you’ve never eaten the Impossible Burger though. It’s plant based but it’s tested on animals. They force fed some of the artificial ingredients to rats then dissected them.

I wouldn’t eat it even off of a different grill and I wouldn’t buy from them as a vegetarian anyway unless it really was the only option. Same as KFC - you’d never get me inside that particular hellhole. I have been to Nando’s with friends when they’ve all voted majority and I’ve had the veggie options there but it really doesn’t sit well with me to go to a highly meat focused restaurant as a veggie.
I do still however like a cake or veggie sandwich from greggs and I must admit I get chocolate milkshakes from McDs on the odd occasion (when the sodding machines are working).
But anyway you are NOT unreasonable for wanting a non meat option to be fully non meat and not soaked with beef dripping

Weirdly I’m a pretty shit vegetarian but the idea of meat juices contaminating a veggie burger grosses me out. fussy

@SaaauuusierGrrr I disagree, I think there is a large difference between using a frying pan that has been washed, and eating food that is has been cooked in meat juices.

as a life long veggie now going over to veganism i wouldn't eat from most fast food places as i don't want to buy into the meat / fish industry, but every one to their own.

I think you would think I am a strict vegetarian/vegan

We do have separate pans.

We have a pan solely for milk or cheese sauce type stuff, another that is purely for boiled or poached eggs and separate cutlery and crockery.

In our next house we will be getting a second dishwasher solely for Dp and cats bowls which are hand washed atm

Is a bit ridiculous. That said, my vegetarian dd and dh would probably be ok with it.

@Oliversmumsarmy you can get a kosher dishwasher that has 2 drawers to keep things separate.

Or two dishwashers - or even two kitchens! A colleague’s dad made a decent living selling kitchens to the religious community - and he often sold double the equipment to particularly observant households.

I think there is a large difference between using a frying pan that has been washed, and eating food that is has been cooked in meat juices.

@SlowSigh That's true and I agree with you but that's also not what you said when I was replying to you.

You said that if people are fine with cross contamination then they are not vegetarian or vegan.

My point is that there are degrees of cross contamination and different people have different thresholds.

And I'm not totally convinced that "cooked in meat juices" is what's even happening here. Again there's a big difference between flame grilling meat at one end of a grill and a veggie burger at the other, compared to basting something in meat juice.

I'm on a few different vegan forums and the majority opinion seems to be that most people consider it acceptable, because they already acknowledge that most restaurants will have some degree of cross contamination and that supporting the availability of non meat alternatives is largely a good thing.

There's also a pretty pervasive feeling among many vegans that this "not really vegetarian" outcry is pretty much just yet another "gotcha" aimed at vegans in an attempt to undermine veganism as a whole. This whole shared grill storm in a teacup already played out across the pond and didn't really work.

People love to play the "hypocrite vegans" whataboutism card or try to undermine the rising market for plant based alternatives. The right wing press is particularly adept at creating these non-stories.

I’m sick of hearing the word Vegan, it’s so annoying. Just eat your dinner fgs

I don’t really understand what the issue is, do all vegans really believe that all restaurants have a separate kitchen to cook and prepare their meals? I’ve worked in many restaurants and all the veggie/vegan food is cooked using the same equipment m/grills/pans etc unless told that there’s an allergy.

I think it’s quite a good idea to aim meatless food at meat eaters, what’s wrong with people cutting down on meat, why does it make them bad or stupid? I really don’t understand the vitriol from vegans at all - but then nothing’s good enough for a vegan unless your vegan I suppose - they’re a bit like ex smokers - evangelical 😂

Vegans - you do realise that there isn’t really any such thing as a vegan meal. All food is in some way connected to the death or exploitation of an animal or insect, There is a food pyramid and it’s the circle of life. So really there’s no such thing as a vegan.

Forgot to add, I say the above as someone who has been veggie for 30 years! Although I hate labels (they are designed to make others feel shitty and it’s all a bit attention seeking isn’t it😂) so I don’t really tell people, I just eat my food.

@Boombastic

The definition of veganism according to the Vegan Society is:

"Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose."

So yes, there is such a thing as a vegan.

This is turning into a who is the most vegan competition!

Pure vegans, ethical vegans, proper vegans....

Is there a colour chart or something?

so true but there are so many products/ foods that are meant to be vegetarian but aren't e.g. Parmesan on the veggie option in restaurants

@SaaauuusierGrrr yes I’ve heard that Many times, it’s always trotted out. I think it’s a complete cop out and shows a ridiculous cognitive dissonance to the plight of commercial bees, and all the animals killed in vegetable farming etc. It’s also very hypocritical if you are preaching to a meat eater!

YABU to expect them to keep a whole grill free for the odd vegan burger. It’s only for people who are not usually vegan bit want to try it during the vegan month. Also, why go to a burger chain if you’re vegan. There are lots of places that are vegan or have vegan option. I wouldn’t go to a vegan restaurant and expect a hamburger!

I mean how do you think mushrooms are grown? Tomatoes? Fruits? - Manure, commercial bees, bonemeal. Yes you can use chemical fertilisers but they deplete soils over time. Animal herds are actually great for biodiversity in our land. And farmers are the custodians of our countryside - do we really want all that scrapped for miles of poly tunnels?