Opting out of organ donation

[ringme]

So the law has changed and this spring the NHS will consider you to be an organ donor automatically if you don’t opt out. I haven’t had a chance to really consider this all yet, WIBU to opt out at this stage until I have time to think about it or is that a selfish move given that 408 people died last year waiting for a donor?

What will you be doing?

www.organdonation.nhs.uk/helping-you-to-decide/about-organ-donation/faq/what-is-the-opt-out-system

I was an altruistic kidney donor last year.
I've carried a donor card since I was around 13 & my family knew my wishes.
I haven't told many people that I've donated, it was something I really want to do and if I could do it again I would.
I think donating is a good thing to do and I'm glad we will now have an opt out policy.
Being able to help another person live a longer life is surely a good thing.
Please think before opting out.

the simple fact is it’s ludicrous to chose to have your organs rot in the ground or burn to nothing when they could be used to help someone else and give that person a second chance of life

I agree with this, but I still don't agree with the State saying it can just harvest organs from people who didn't expressly opt in.

However, if someone has expressly opted in, that should be the end of the story. I don't want my DH or DS overriding my wishes if the worst happens.

As others have said, it's different for children who cannot opt in themselves.

The government should be looking at all the ways it can get people opted in, rather than going down an opt out system.

Interestingly I see this debate is going on in Germany at the moment too.

Somehow now the state is involved, I feel much more inclined to opt out - whereas it would never have occurred me to leave instructions to that effect previously.

But I am curious, what would you do if you needed a transfusion, would you refuse one because of your phobia or would you just put up with it?

I'm hoping I would be unconscious and would only find out when I woke up! The last blood tests I had were 6 years ago when I had my gallbladder out and that was only because I was told I would probably die if I didn't. Even then, I had to think very carefully about it and DH had to take me for any blood tests as I wasn't fit to drive.

I did ask about giving blood once but when I said I had a needle phobia I was told not to as they don't have the staff to deal with me if I faint.

daisy2002 that is so incredible and brave. You are amazing. I am so encouraged that people are willing to do such a thing.

My husband has thought of this. At the moment he has not done it and I have not encouraged him because I think altruistic donation like this must be something a person decides on their own.

AlternativePerspective We do not all have the courage and willingness to go forward for altruistic donation but we can still feel it is a total waste for people to opt out of the system which would use your organs when you no longer can.

I would not call people who do not donate once they die selfish arsesoles, that is cruel. But I believe once one dies then the reality of the 'self' in that body is very much gone. So there is no self left to think of.

However, it does seem rather short-sighted not to want to make use of your unneeded body parts after your death if they can save lives.

People who chose to be altruistic living doners are very kind and brave, incredible people, and it is wonderful if someone chooses to do that. However, because we are not all choosing to do that it doesn't make the decision of someone to hang onto their organs any less pointless and an utter waste, IMHO.

katy1213 Why does the fact the state is involved in the system make you feel like opting out? It's doctors that would be removing organs. The same doctors whether the system was opt in or opt out.

I find it curious because we really can make no use of the organs at all once dead and neither can anyone else! Unless they are donated into a living person.

And if you cease to exist as a person, why would you care what was happening to your organs?

I used to say I couldn't be a donor as didn't like the idea. Then I had kids and realised not only would I take an organ, I'd want them to have an organ if needed. Therefore, no excuse not to be really.

There's a massive different between not being able to donate - due to illness, phobia, personal circumstance etc. Those people don't have a choice whether they can donate or not.

Its the people who are perfectly able to but just opt out that I think shouldn't receive it back in kind.

Although I'd guarantee that despite the bravado of " I wouldn't accept a donor organ etc" I wonder how many actually would change their minds when faced with either this, or death!

Interesting how the state chooses to define childhood and dependency. An 18-year-old is considered an adult who can opt out of the donor registry, die in war (even by conscription) but not when it comes to student finance, benefits or even an equivalent minimum wage. It does make you wonder if it's wise to implicitly trust such a state with everything including provenance over your body in death.

Its the people who are perfectly able to but just opt out that I think shouldn't receive it back in kind.

But as I said in my earlier post, whee do you draw the line? Plenty of people make lifestyle choices that mean they can’t donate.

@ Italiangreyhound I agree that once you’re dead your organs are really of no use and from my own perspective they could have what was viable. Ironically I would be unlikely to be able to donate as I actually need a heart so that probably rules me out as a potential candidate.

But I don’t agree with this notion that anyone who hypothetically wouldn’t donate their organs is a selfish arsehole who doesn’t deserve to live if they find themselves in the position of needing an organ.

Because as much as people dress it up, saying that someone who wouldn’t donate shouldn’t receive an organ is saying that that person deserves to die. Especially when you consider that the hypothetical chance of becoming a donor is so vanishingly rare - around 1% of deaths in the UK every year) that the statement is an empty one anyway. You are far more likely to need a transplant than to die in a situation which would make you eligible to donate your organs.

I think the option to opt out is there for a reason, but you need to consider why you want to opt out. You may not like the thought, but when you're dead, you won't know any different so imo it does seem a bit selfish not to, especially if you'd take a donor organ from someone else.

As for people saying they wouldn’t accept an organ, in June I was told that due to the seriousness of my heart condition my only hope of survival was a heart transplant and to not leave hospital but to be sent to the transplant centre to be placed on the urgent transplant list. However, when they measured my lung pressure it was too high meaning that a heart transplant would not be possible. A dr came to see me and told me that he was very sorry but I was ineligible for transplant and that my only hope was to restore my health to the point it had been before I went into hospital (which was pretty shit, I was housebound, unable to walk up more than half a flight of stairs etc) and that he couldn’t tell me how long I had left but that the outcome was inevitable.

My actual words to him were that I was aware that transplant carried risk anyway, and so if it wasn’t meant to be then I was at peace with that.

The consultant who is the transplant or coordinator for the hospital understood that to mean that I didn’t want a transplant anyway. Certainly the idea of needing a transplant was terrifying, probably because I was in some part in denial even though I had been sick for three years and had nearly died just days before and nearly died again days after.

But when he came to see me he basically said that if I wanted to live then a transplant was my only long-term option, and that I should want this.

He is very blunt and very direct but I’d rather that than someone who beats around the bush tbh.

The result is that they have put some interim measures in place to stabilise my heart and hopefully improve my quality of life, and make me transplant viable again. Those measures have worked. I have more stamina than back then and more importantly, my lung pressure has come down to the point where I am now eligible for a transplant.

I still don’t want a transplant, the thought of surgery absolutely terrifies me not to mention what it all means, but I absolutely need one. And so I have accepted the fact that my only long-term option is a transplant. For me there are no more interim measures such as ventricular assistance devices because of the structure of my heart. So if I deteriorate again I have to both hope that my pressures stay stable, and that a heart becomes available.

But I have been left in no doubt that this is the only treatment option.

So while they certainly wouldn’t bully someone into receiving an organ, they absolutely won’t sit back as someone said “oh, I don’t want one of those,” because as doctors they are trained in order to save lives.

PS: I also realise that there’s a chance a heart won’t be found in time, or that my condition will deteriorate rapidly, and if that happens well, we’re all going there one day, it’s just that some of us get some insight into how that might happen. Doesn’t mean I won’t fight to keep as fit as I can, but I am at peace with the alternative if that’s how it turns out.

And that's why I favour an Israeli style 'opt out' system. Hardly anyone would opt out, because they will pause to think of the potential impact on them.

God, yes, definitely! A country well known for its concern for human rights such as Israel is such a terrific role model for how to treat people .

I’ve opted out. I made that choice because if my life is going to end in the sort of circumstances that would make me eligible to be a donor, I’d prefer to be switched off sooner rather than later. I don’t want to be kept on life support for however long it takes the hospitals to arrange a donation and transplant. I don’t want to have my life support switched off while in theatre surrounded by strangers with my body cut open. I don’t want my family to be told that I’m ‘dead’ and then feel they have to hang around the hospital until the doctors are ready so that I don’t die without them nearby.

If I’m going to die in hospital and have to have life support switched off, then I’d prefer to be switched off with my family around me, at the time that’s right for them. If my brain is truly dead, then I want my body to also be dead at the same time, or at least as soon after as possible.

The way I feel about it is that you’re not really dead if your heart is still beating and you’re still breathing, even if you are on life support.

If I could donate my organs after being properly dead, as in both brain and body gone and no longer functioning then I would. But they don’t do it like that.

If that makes me selfish in some people’s heads, so be it. I couldn’t give a shit, I’m entitled to be selfish about my own body. It seems a pretty small minded view to me, there are plenty of other ways to show selflessness, and being willing to donate organs doesn’t stop selfish behaviour in all the other ways it’s possible.

But as I said in my earlier post, whee do you draw the line? Plenty of people make lifestyle choices that mean they can’t donate

Like what?

Like what?

In term of blood, you can never give blood if...
You have ever injected, or been injected with, drugs; even a long time ago or only once. This includes body-building drugs and injectable tanning agents.

Plus there are shorter term limitations for various other things, such as certain sexual behaviour etc.

I'm happy to be a donor myself, Nail, but I 100% respect your opinion and your decision about your own body.

@AlternativeReality

“So wanting people to die because of that which they hypothetically wouldn’t be prepared to give is showing humanity is it?

Given your organs will probably wrot in the ground anyway because it’s unlikely you’ll ever be in a position to donate, that argument holds no water.

You are far more likely to be a recipient than a donor, but keep going on about something which will likely never happen to most of us just to show what a caring person you are.”

The irony and contradiction in your whole post is quite worrying

@ DecisioNN What are you on about? Where did I say that I wanted anyone to die. What you and others are saying is that changing the law to mean that if you hypothetically weren’t prepared to donate then you shouldn’t be allowed to receive.

Therefore what you’re saying is that if someone wasn’t prepared to donate, even though they will likely never do so, in the event they needed an organ you would want them to die, purely because they weren’t hypothetically prepared to donate organs they would never likely have donated anyway.

Like what? well, if you’re a heavy drinker, smoker, are obese, have had a sexually transmitted disease you wouldn’t likely be eligible to donate your organs. Therefore the intention to donate would be meaningless.

So should people who live certain lifestyles be ineligible for organ transplant because by living those lifestyles they are ruling themselves out as potential donors?

PS: that is irrespective of the fact that those lifestyles or some of them could rule them out as potential recipients anyway. But should they be judged because their potential commitment to donate was meaningless anyway given they wouldn’t have been able to even if they’d died under the right circumstances.

Have you had a name change to Alternative Reality??

You should perhaps check who you are responding to before you start going full throttle.... wasn’t even replying to you so of course you’re confused

Last I checked you were Alternative Perspective!

@NailsNeedDoing

Organs can now be retrieved after 'circulatory death' (ie heart/breathing stops) so long as it is in the controlled situation like in an intensive care unit. This is known as 'Donation after circulatory death' as opposed to 'donation after brain death'.
A transplant patient is given the option of agreeing to accept a DCD organ or not.

"You are more likely to need an organ than ever give one."

"More than one in 10 people will die waiting for the transplant they need."

As so many people have said on here, if you would want one for yourself or family member then it is incredibly selfish to opt out yourself.