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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Opting out of organ donation

999 replies

ringme · 10/01/2020 16:38

So the law has changed and this spring the NHS will consider you to be an organ donor automatically if you don’t opt out. I haven’t had a chance to really consider this all yet, WIBU to opt out at this stage until I have time to think about it or is that a selfish move given that 408 people died last year waiting for a donor?

What will you be doing?

www.organdonation.nhs.uk/helping-you-to-decide/about-organ-donation/faq/what-is-the-opt-out-system

OP posts:
ChangeInTime · 12/01/2020 20:42

Deciding people's worthiness using your criteria is no different to me than using any other criteria I listed to decide who deserves to receive healthcare or not. It's a dangerous and disturbing road to go down, but I'm sure that piece of shit partner who yet again, beat my Friend in front of her young children the other day is a more deserving candidate for a transplant just because he won't opt out than my other friend who declined after being left traumatised by the experience of donating her young husband's organs.

ChangeInTime · 12/01/2020 20:44

Also if anyone's on their high horse it's you and the rest of your cavalry.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 12/01/2020 20:50

It may be 'ludicrous' but if it gave my family comfort that I wasn't taken away to have my organs removed then that to me is more important. Judge me all you like, but my family are the important ones to me. On the other hand, if they were comforted by donating my organs then I have no issue donating certain organs.

XXcstatic · 12/01/2020 20:50

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult Huge sympathies and respect for your losses. I think the horrible dilemma you went through is actually an argument in favour of changing the law for adult donation so that the individual's wishes stand, and cannot be over-ridden by their relatives. That way, the relatives do not have to make such a difficult decision at the moment of bereavement, and the dying person knows that their wishes will be respected.

Of course, this would not remove the emotional burden of the decision for parents of children who die. Hopefully, within a couple of decades, it will become irrelevant as we are getting closer to being able to regenerate many organs that have failed - as already happens with skin (which is an organ).

DecisioNN · 12/01/2020 20:50

@ChangeInTime

Your argument about your friends situation is irrelevant to the point.

You either opt in or opt out. End of.

If you opt out that’s fine. Don’t expect to be first in line to receive though.

ChangeInTime · 12/01/2020 20:51

If you opt out that’s fine. Don’t expect to be first in line to receive though.

Thankfully your opinions are equally irrelevant and no one is currently batshit enough to base the provision of healthcare on them.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 12/01/2020 20:52

It's insane and barbaric to determine how deserving someone is of future healthcare based on their response to a hypothetical question about a situation they are unlikely to find themselves in.

Why is it insane to prioritise a non alcoholic over an alcoholic for a liver transplant?
Why is it barbaric to prioritise a non smoker over a smoker for a lung transplant?
Why is it insane and barbaric to prioritise a person who is willing to donate & possibly help save multiple lives after their death over a person who is not willing to help anybody after their death?

Again healthcare should not be a meritocracy
We have a very limited supply of suitable donated organs, it is common sense to place those organs where it will do the most benefit. That is not a meritocracy.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 12/01/2020 20:53

Your argument about your friends situation is irrelevant to the point.

Her friend's situation is relevant. The people who are left behind are the ones who have to deal with their grief and, if they aren't comfortable with donating for whatever reason then I fully respect their right to say no.

eminencegrise · 12/01/2020 20:54

I don't know how anyone can be selfish enough to let their organs be burnt or rot, when they could help someone else. Squeamishness is no excuse to let someone die unnecessarily.

Judgey much? Hmm I'm a donor, probably for naught as I'm a smoker, but as a bereaved parent, I can see why or how some wouldn't be able to donate, say, their child's organs. I don't think it makes them a selfish person. It's rather alarming and upsetting to think how the medics caring for their child see them as selfish or awful people. Hmm. Again, it wasn't an issue for us, our child could not have been a donor, but I really don't think it's on at all to judge other peoples' personal decisions about their bodies.

Russellbrandshair · 12/01/2020 20:55

I'm sure that piece of shit partner who yet again, beat my Friend in front of her young children the other day is a more deserving candidate for a transplant just because he won't opt out than my other friend who declined after being left traumatised by the experience of donating her young husband's organs.

This makes no sense- if your friend was traumatised by donating her husbands organs then why would she expect another family to go through it? If she regretted it, how can she expect others to do it for her?

DecisioNN · 12/01/2020 20:56

@ChangeInTime

Well looks to me like things are changing in the right direction!

Used to be opt in now it’s opt out, so don’t be too surprised if ‘being on the register’ is the deciding factor for both donating and receiving in the not so distant future!!

ChangeInTime · 12/01/2020 20:58

There is a huge difference between considering the viability of an organ in each candidate which, and dismissing as smokers as candidates because of some moral judgement that says that they are less deserving.

DecisioNN · 12/01/2020 20:58

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

No ones saying they don’t have the right. It is a choice now and that’s fair enough

ChangeInTime · 12/01/2020 20:59

Used to be opt in now it’s opt out, so don’t be too surprised if ‘being on the register’ is the deciding factor for both donating and receiving in the not so distant future!!

I'll live in hope that the people deciding these things continue to have more sense and humanity than you.

DecisioNN · 12/01/2020 21:01

@eminencegrise

What I will say is that I do feel different regarding children and to those that lose a child. I can understand why the parents would really struggle with donating the organs of a child. No one should ever have to go through that trauma.

AlternativePerspective · 12/01/2020 21:02

There are people on this actual thread who have been there at the point their loved ones’ organs were donated and who were traumatised by it.

People who have talked about their actual experiences of being there at the point a loved one was wheeled away.

For some, donating organs is a positive experience, for others it is not.

But I notice that all those who have talked about their real experiences have been glossed over by those who have such a one-track view based on nothing but their own moral judgements that they refuse to see the point of view of others.

Asking whether other criteria should be judged or not is exactly the same. But people won’t talk about those because those criteria are more often than not real and happening in the here and now whereas the willingness or not to donate is purely hypothetical and therefore people can trot out their platitudes about how this and that one shouldn’t be allowed to receive based on their hypothetical unwillingness to give.

As a future recipient I wouldn’t want to receive a heart from someone because their loved ones felt they had no other choice because saying no would mean they might have to watch another child die due to being refused. That takes away entirely the notion of a donation being a gift and turns each and every one of us into commodities of the state even during life. Because as soon as you start to dictate what people should be allowed to happen to their bodies in life you have removed their right to bodily autonomy, and based on what? A straw man argument.

XXcstatic · 12/01/2020 21:02

It's rather alarming and upsetting to think how the medics caring for their child see them as selfish or awful people

I am talking about adult donors. But yes, I do think it is selfish to be in a position whereby - as an adult potential donor - you can save someone from pain, suffering and death, at no cost to yourself, and to choose not to do it, and to let your organs rot or burn instead.

And you might feel the same if you had seen as many people as I have die from organ failure.

I also think it is utterly hypocritical to say that you would accept a donated organ but to be too squeamish to donate your own.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 12/01/2020 21:03

No ones saying they don’t have the right. It is a choice now and that’s fair enough

Some people are saying they shouldn't have the right to say no though.

DecisioNN · 12/01/2020 21:04

@ChangeInTime

Ditto to that about you!! Hmmm because it makes so much sense to let your organs rot when they could be used to help someone 🙄
Yeah but I’m the one that doesn’t show humanity, despite wanting to help others when I don’t my organs... ok then

DecisioNN · 12/01/2020 21:04

*dont need my organs

ChangeInTime · 12/01/2020 21:06

This makes no sense- if your friend was traumatised by donating her husbands organs then why would she expect another family to go through it? If she regretted it, how can she expect others to do it for her?

My Friend says she would refuse an organ at the moment, but when it comes down to it who really knows what they'd do until they're in that situation. People can change their minds. Unless you have been there you have no idea how you'd react.

She was pro donation though like most people didn't give it much thought after registering. Until it happened to her she had no idea that donating his organs would make his death even more difficult for her to bear, and of course it was terrible enough, but for her it made it even harder and prolonged saying goodbye. And now, three years later she still derives no comfort from thinking that some strangers may be alive because of those organs. She also knows that many people do gain some comfort from knowing that, and not everyone regrets it but it doesn't make her experience any less valid.

AlternativePerspective · 12/01/2020 21:09

Why is it insane to prioritise a non alcoholic over an alcoholic for a liver transplant? because the likelihood of rejection and/or success in an alcoholic is high compared to a non alcoholic. *
Why is it barbaric to prioritise a non smoker over a smoker for a lung transplant? as above.Why is it insane and barbaric to prioritise a person who is willing to donate & possibly help save multiple lives after their death over a person who is not willing to help anybody after their death?* because that is based on moral judgement and nothing more.

The three scenarios are entirely different.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 12/01/2020 21:10

Life saving organs are one thing but my concern is still that other organs will be added to the list without notifying those on it. Who's to say in 10 years time we won't suddenly find limb transplants, face transplants, womb transplant happening and, because I'd previously chosen to donate all my organs it's presumed I would consent to donate those?

AlternativePerspective · 12/01/2020 21:10

Bold fail.

HJWT · 12/01/2020 21:11

Im happy to donate anything in my body but not my head! Really wouldn't want them to take my eyes 👀 dead or not I like them 🤷🏻‍♀️

The only thing that bothers me is are you still 'alive' when they take them?

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