Opting out of organ donation

[ringme]

So the law has changed and this spring the NHS will consider you to be an organ donor automatically if you don’t opt out. I haven’t had a chance to really consider this all yet, WIBU to opt out at this stage until I have time to think about it or is that a selfish move given that 408 people died last year waiting for a donor?

What will you be doing?

www.organdonation.nhs.uk/helping-you-to-decide/about-organ-donation/faq/what-is-the-opt-out-system

I was already registered to donate, I'm just sorry not that much of me is useful that's to chronic lifelong illness. DH is also registered.

We have also discussed and agreed our position if god forbid something happened to the kids and we would donate their organs too.

Once I'm dead my body does nothing for me or my family (We both believe we love on in other ways and body is just a body) but could mean so much to someone else.

I am glad that it's going the way it has because if you are opposed you can opt out and have control if you wish but it means that being oblivious, not getting round to it or just laziness has a positive rather than a negative outcome.

@ eminencegrise When I brought up that point earlier in the thread I was told I was making wild statements.

Although there have been threads on here which have suggested that everyone should be prepared to donate a kidney to a family member if the need arose, with the caveat “why wouldn’t you?”

I have no need of my body after I'm dead. It's just an empty shell. They can take what they like and bury my remains in nature for the worms to turn into compost. I am Wiccan and firmly believe in the cycle of life; my spirit will live on and in time I will return to the wheel of life. The body that once housed me here is no longer required by me. If it can do some good for others then let it. I've carried a donor card for over forty years now. Parts of my body, if not used for others, can still be used for research to help others in the future and prevent animals being used so much for testing. The important thing is my spirit, not the empty shell of flesh that will rot down to become part of to mother earth again.

@ DecisioNN but there are posters on this thread who have said that if you wouldn’t be prepared to donate then you shouldn’t be allowed to receive an organ in the event you needed a transplant. One even said that organ donation should be compulsory.

As for the statement from another PP that people remaining oblivious will increase the numbers of donors this is absolutely not the case. Regardless of opt in/opt out your family have the overriding say. So unless you actively tell them your wishes they have to make those decisions for themselves. And it’s worth noting here that over 50% of families where someone is on the donor register still refuse consent, but the number who do consent goes up when the wishes of the deceased are known.

There is a lot of evidence that opt out is actually a negative because whereas people would just not bother before people are more likely to actively opt out. So if a family who didn’t know their loved one’s wishes are more likely to decline to donate even if they’re on the register, then chances are that knowing they have actively opted out will mean that the wishes were very apparent, and few people would go against that.

The suggestion is very much that it’s discussion with family as well as improved communication with next of kin are the key to bringing about increases in organs. Opt out is essentially just a paper exercise.

In countries like Spain the donation rate has only increased recently, in conjunction with improvements to communications with relatives, even though opt out has been in place since the 70’s.

I am ready to receive but opted out. Would it help these people who don't accept this to have a clause "not to be donated to person who opted out" in their files?

My only issue is ovaries. I'd donate everything else.

Would it help these people who don't accept this to have a clause "not to be donated to person who opted out" in their files?

Don't think that would be a good idea. Once you start ruling out one group of people as recipients you open the door to ruling out others. Should people be able to say no alcoholics, no smokers, nobody with a criminal record, nobody over 50?

Would it help these people who don't accept this to have a clause "not to be donated to person who opted out" in their files? And where does that one end?

A clause that you wouldn’t want to donate to pedophiles? Murderers? People whose condition is as a result of their lifestyle i.e. alcoholics and smokers?

If you’re prepared to donate, then that has to be without condition. After all a person’s medical need is not something which we have the right to play judge and jury over.

If you don’t want to donate to people who’ve opted out then you need to opt out yourself and make it clear you don’t want to donate full stop.

@AlternativePerspective

I also agree with the people you are talking about in the first paragraph. Why should someone who actively chooses to opt out of being a donor, be able to benefit from receiving one??

@Bansku19

So you would happily receive an organ if you needed one? But you would refuse to allow yours to be used when your dead? Wow, that’s very hypocritical to say the least!

And yes, I absolutely do think there should be a file stating someone chose to opt out, therefore fore forfeiting their right to receive one. It’s only fair.

@Bansku19 I am ready to receive but opted out. Would it help these people who don't accept this to have a clause "not to be donated to person who opted out" in their files?

No. What would help would be that you opt in or opt out of the system as a whole. i.e. "I choose to be part of / not to be part of the UK's organ donor registry". The opt in or opt out should apply to being both a donor and a recipient. Anything else is grossly unreasonable.

What is your justification for refusing to help others but thinking they should help you?

I’m on the fence at the moment. I don’t like the automatic opt in. It feels to me like your body would be raided after death. But I also appreciate that if someone isn’t on the donor list, then they shouldn’t be on future recipient lists either.

@ScarlettBlaize

Absolutely this... fantastic idea 👌👏

”No. What would help would be that you opt in or opt out of the system as a whole. i.e. "I choose to be part of / not to be part of the UK's organ donor registry". The opt in or opt out should apply to being both a donor and a recipient. Anything else is grossly unreasonable.”

YABU and have had plenty of time to think about it. What if everyone decided to opt out whilst they ‘think about it.’

Thanks to two selfless men, my niece received two organs that gave her the life she has today.

If you’re not prepared to donate, don’t expect to receive.

I have no problems to receive one. I have also thought about altruistic kidney donation. I can donate what is needed when I am alive. I donate blood regularly.

But my beliefs what happens after death don't go together with organ donation. I am not part of any religion but I have believed this way as long as I remember.

Erm, at no point did I suggest that people who wouldn’t be prepared to donate shouldn’t be allowed to benefit from receiving an organ, but in answer to your question, the reason is because we base treatment in this country on medical need not on our moral judgements as to who is most deserving.

it could be argued that e.g. someone who is a smoker is less deserving than someone who has opted out, because the smoker is a smoker now whereas the person who has opted out would likely never have been in a position to donate in the first place.

As I’ve said upthread, the talk of being a donor is purely hypothetical. You will only be a donor if you die in the right circumstances, if your organs are viable, if you meet all the criteria for being a donor. So that accounts for around 1% of deaths in the UK each year.

@Bansku19

That’s fine and that’s your choice to not want to donate. The issue is that many people think it’s unfair that someone would happily receive one but would not be willing to donate.

For example, around 500 pancreases are donated every year, that is in fact around twice the number which are required as the list for pancreas transplant is the lowest of all the lists.

But over half of those become non viable for donation because the pancreas is such a delicate organ that it is easily damaged during the removal process or even in situ. Therefore, of the 500 people who would donate their pancreas, only around half of those will actually be pancreas donors.

. I'm on the list and I'm happy to donate to anyone. I don't give a shit if they're on the register or not. I don't think that healthcare should be a meritocracy. The amount of frothing and bile directed at those who have different opinions is revolting. No one knows how they'll feel when/if it actually becomes a necessity so to condemn people on a hypothetical situation is just batshit, and incredibly sinister. In what other circumstances are you happy to deprive supposedly undeserving people of healthcare II wonder?

It’s only fair.

I am not sure when one is in the throes of organ donation, either as a donator or recipient, that there is such concept as 'fair'

If they have a loved one who needs an organ then I find it extremely hypocritical they would be desperate for their loved one to find a donor and happily received it, but they still wouldn’t allow their own to be use upon their death.

That is making someone's medical treatment conditional on another person! How is that not obvious? What your 'loved one' does with his or her body is his or hers alone, he or she is the one who agrees to transplant, no one else, not their loved ones. Their 'loved ones' are not getting an organ. The 'loves ones' are not accepting an organ, the person who's getting a transplant is. It's also a moot point as most of those ill enough to need transplant will not be able to donate themselves. So showing willingness to do so is meaningless.

I mean, one's 'loved ones' could be 83-year-old smokers and lifelong alcoholics (they do exist!), so what if they are on the donor register, chances are theirs are not going to be usable.

I hadn’t even considered ovaries. Good point pp- I wouldn’t donate mine either

They can have whatever they want of mine, of DH's and of DS' if it comes to that. (I know DH feels strongly about this too.) I would take an organ if I needed it and so it's only fair to give back.
I think it would bring great comfort to know that I or my family had saved lives.

@AlternativePerspective

This is what you posted in two separate posts. They seem to be contradicting.....

**“Erm, at no point did I suggest that people who wouldn’t be prepared to donate shouldn’t be allowed to benefit from receiving an organ, but in answer to your question, the reason is because we base treatment in this country on medical need not on our moral judgements as to who is most deserving.

@ DecisioNN but there are posters on this thread who have said that if you wouldn’t be prepared to donate then you shouldn’t be allowed to receive an organ in the event you needed a transplant. One even said that organ donation should be compulsory”

So you think it’s ok to receive but not give?

I would absolutely donate an organ to someone who didn't want to donate theirs though. I'm not in the business of only saving lives of people I agree with. One of the best things about our health service is that it saves the lives of everyone whose life needs saving.