Opting out of organ donation

[ringme]

So the law has changed and this spring the NHS will consider you to be an organ donor automatically if you don’t opt out. I haven’t had a chance to really consider this all yet, WIBU to opt out at this stage until I have time to think about it or is that a selfish move given that 408 people died last year waiting for a donor?

What will you be doing?

www.organdonation.nhs.uk/helping-you-to-decide/about-organ-donation/faq/what-is-the-opt-out-system

@Barracker

The research shows that families are 9 times more likely to agree to donation if the patient has expressed they want to be a donor.

Yes, the apathetic group are still treated as potential donors but I guess the difference will be that it could be said this person has not expressly chosen to opt out of organ donation, therefore they are more likely to be okay with organ donation. I would see that as helpful to me if I were being asked my thoughts on whether a relative would want to donate. Remember, it’s not about what the family themselves want, it’s about what the patient would have wanted. The family are obviously the best placed for that but it’s not “their” decision per se.

To the PP who suggested that you shouldn’t be allowed a blood transfusion unless you donate blood, you do realise that that would be completely unworkable?

Given blood transfusion usually happens in the case of an emergency, there wouldn’t be time to check whether the person was eligible or not because the emphasis would be on saving their life.

Added to which there are so many people who are unable to donate due to other health conditions/previous transfusions/residency in other countries/reaction to donation that it would be impossible to keep on top of all that.

Also this “you shouldn’t be allowed to receive unless you give” is all very well being said for a situation you are never likely to find yourself in. So let’s look at some scenarios closer to home where not doing one thing should make you ineligible for another.

You’re overweight. So unless you lose a certain amount of weight you should be ineligible for treatment for cancer/heart conditions/any other condition which is weight related.

You play sport. Therefore you should not be eligible for treatment for sports related injuries.

You drink more than the requisite units of alcohol per week. Therefore you shouldn’t be eligible for any kind of treatment of illnesses which could be affected by alcohol consumption.

You are infertile, If you don’t agree to relinquish half your embrio’s then you wouldn’t be eligible for treatment.

It’s very easy to sit here and say that you’d rather people died if they weren’t prepared to donate. Because that’s what you’re saying. “If you aren’t prepared to give your organs, even though it’s unlikely you will ever have to do so, you deserve to die.”

Is that the mark of a compassionate society?

@PaperFlowers4 Can you explain more about your comment: " I don’t want my tissues to be given over to companies who then process it into “value added” products and sell it for profit."

Does this happen? How and in what scenario?

Very well said AlternativePerspective !

Exactly Fanjo

Me and my family and some extended family have already opted out. I had a thread about this last year.

Can't stand the people who say it is selfish to opt out as can't stand people who can't possibly think about the many reasons why people may not do the same as them. Lazy thinking and lack of critical thinking.

If you opt out of donating an organ, you should be banned from receiving one I have to say I strongly agree.

I work in care. A lady with Parkinson's dies and had arranged for her brain to be donated to the charity for research. It was amazing. We only had a maximum of 6 hours to get from home to where it needed to be so we all knew what the process off so that when she died everything happened straight away. She was so independent all her life, brave, kind and got what she wanted at the end of her life.

It's always what I consider to be a privilege to help and just be with people in the last few years of their lives, nearing their deaths and at their deaths. But it was an extra privilege to be a part of that day.

flirtygirl would you be happy for you or your family to receive if needed? May I ask what your reasons are? It may help me and others to know. As all I can think of are (perfectly valid) religious.

I want to opt out but feel selfish for doing it. I just dont like the idea of another human walking around with my body parts weird I know as I'll be dead anyway. And like others have said if me or my dd needed an organ donation I wouldn't refuse so feel I cant opt out even though I'm not 100% happy about it.

Currently, if the service does not know either way, they ask the next of kin, who represent the deceased's wishes.

Well yeah. What’s your point? My comment answered the question on why opt out is seen as better. And it’s true.

Personally I’ve always thought the next of kin thing should be done away with if the person is down as donating then that should be what’s looked at, not what the family members think.

happyandsingle I’m sorry but can you explain any further? You would receive an organ but the thought of your organs in someone else is weird? I don’t get that at all. It makes no sense and to me is a very silly way of thinking. Now the opposite way round would make more sense, as in feeling weird about receiving but not donating for the reasons you give.

would you be happy for you or your family to receive if needed? May I ask what your reasons are? It may help me and others to know. As all I can think of are (perfectly valid) religious. actually the organ donation service recently published an article which covers religion, and in general there are no reasons for religious objection, the only exception being in Islam where it’s deemed that a donor who is still considered to be living shouldn’t donate. So that rules out heart donations from Islamic donors.

As for PP’s reasons, those are nobody else’s business but her’s.

And can we get away from this statement that if you wouldn’t give then you shouldn’t be allowed to receive because it’s misinformed and idiotic.

The chances are that if you were in a position of needing an organ you wouldn’t be able to be a donor, and signing up to the register doesn’t make you a donor, it simply means that in the event of your untimely demise in the right circumstances, you believe your organs should be donated. Never mind the fact that that will likely never happen.

“You shouldn’t be allowed to receive if you wouldn’t give” is a throwaway statement which people can make because they don’t believe it would apply to them or their loved ones.

If your child was in a position to need an organ and wasn’t signed up to the register I doubt that you would blithely sit back and wish your child dead because they weren’t prepared to hypothetically donate their organs.

**is that a selfish move given that 408 people died last year waiting for a donor?

Good gosh no. Not selfish at all.

408 groups of families and friends stood at a graveside burying someone, 408 groups of people doing 1st christmases, 1st birthdays without them, 1st anniversary of their deaths, 1st meeting someone who asks how they are. And you could stop this for one group, between 50 and 200 odd people but you choose not to? Not selfish at all. Exercise your rights damn it.

Leaving your body to medical science aside (as I think I will have to as most of my organs would be rejected for transplant), nothing. Nothing anyone can say about thoughts and choices will ever make me feel that it's not selfish.

Oh, absolutely your choice, like it's my choice to judge someone thay could stop that pit of grief and choose not to. If your rights to autonomy and choice and bloody principle are so important than you would willingly allow parents to stand at their child's graveside to keep your precious point of principle alive, there is something seriously bloody wrong with you.

I would feel weird either way tbh but what I meant is that if me or my dd needed organ donation to stay alive I would not refuse, which is why I have not opted out although as I said am not really comfortable about it all.

@WaterOffADucksCrack

Religion isn’t a reason. All the major religions and belief systems currently active in the UK support the principles of organ donation.

So that rules out heart donations from Islamic donors.

Eh? A heart isn’t taken from someone who is still living.

An awful lot of people are confusing opting out of a specific register, with choosing not to be a donor at all.

They're entirely different things.

Missing entirely the point that the most committed donors, those of us who were amongst the 27% who originally opted in, continue to remain potential donors.

We just are asserting a different mechanism for donating - one which enables explicit, known consent, and requires the seeking of that explicit consent.

We are rejecting the method of holding unconsenting people on a national register and presuming their consent.
We are not rejecting donation.
Many of us are more committed lifelong donors than those people who couldn't be arsed signing up in the first place and who would happily abdicate everyone's right to consent rather than take the 5 minutes to actively register themselves.
And we remain donors. Explicitly.

We are discussing a national database, and a universal ethical principle of consent regarding bodily autonomy, and when it can be disregarded.

It is still perfectly possible to reject a system based upon 'presumed consent' and yet still remain a donor on terms which preserve a fundamental principle of consent that has many implications for other areas of life.

Barracker

Precisely so. Very well said.

If you’ve opted out now though, your decision is not to donate. This won’t/can’t be overridden so you are not still a donor.

Eh? A heart isn’t taken from someone who is still living. I’ll try to find the article, but the basic principle is that in Islam a person who still has an active circulation is presumed to be living. Even though in medicine this isn’t the case.

If your child was in a position to need an organ and wasn’t signed up to the register I doubt that you would blithely sit back and wish your child dead because they weren’t prepared to hypothetically donate their organs. I don't think anyone's brought wishing children dead into it. It's a bit sick that that's what your mind goes to. And we're the "idiotic" ones 😂

Posters on mumsnet as far as I know are adults who make their own decisions which is the group I speak of when I say you shouldn't be prepared to give if you're not prepared to receive. But hey I'm clearly some kind of monster who wishes children dead?!

As for PP’s reasons, those are nobody else’s business but her’s. Which is why I phrased it "may I ask" leaving the answer "no" available. I thought they would be capable of answering for themselves.

In contrast to most I am uncomfortable that my NOK will have no veto. I'll be dead, so in effect I am totally irrelevant, but it is them who will have to go through a grief process. I wouldn't want anything that made that infinitely more difficult for them.

MGC31 Oh really?! One of my religious friends said it is against theirs?!

@ WaterOffADucksCrack so you think that when children become adults they aren’t someone’s child?

Fact is that if you wish people not to receive who (hypothetically) wouldn’t donate then you are wishing someone’s child dead if that child (who is now an adult) would choose not to donate.

If your adult child told you they wouldn’t donate then based on your statement that “if they wouldn’t donate they shouldn’t be allowed to receive” you would be wishing your own child dead.

I think being prepared to let your child die for their principles is very different from actually wishing them dead.