Opting out of organ donation

[ringme]

So the law has changed and this spring the NHS will consider you to be an organ donor automatically if you don’t opt out. I haven’t had a chance to really consider this all yet, WIBU to opt out at this stage until I have time to think about it or is that a selfish move given that 408 people died last year waiting for a donor?

What will you be doing?

www.organdonation.nhs.uk/helping-you-to-decide/about-organ-donation/faq/what-is-the-opt-out-system

@Binting "I have opted out as I am donating my body to medical research."

Have you already organised and paid for this, or is it just in your mind as a justification for not being an organ donor?

@Lockheart Sure, and if you haven't paid enough in tax you should also not get the operation or medicine you need. Don't give don't get, eh?

That depends on why you haven't paid tax. If it's because you're on a low income, obviously that shouldn't apply, because you've still paid whatever tax you were asked to pay (even if that was zero).

If however someone is a lifelong tax evader who has deliberately refused to pay tax on their high income then, ideally, they wouldn't be able to take from a system funded by public taxation.

I agree we need more organ donors but some of you really need to have a think about what you're proposing when you say you want to exclude people from healthcare because they have a different set of principles to you.

Nope. It's not because they have a different set of principles to me (or to anyone on the donor register). It's because they have a different set of principles to themselves depending on whether they are a donor or a recipient. Which is fundamentally wrong.

If someone is just opposed to organ donation or blood donation per se, regardless of whether they'd be the donor or recipient, that's legitimate.

What is absolutely not legitimate is to say that you will participate in a system - be it taxation, organ donation, blood donation, the rule of law, etc. - if it benefits you, but that you will not participate in it when you are asked to contribute to it.

You either subscribe to that system of belief, or you don't.

You can't only subscribe to a system of belief when it benefits you, and reject it when it has some cost to you.

I'm still donating but a grim part of me wonders if they check if your compatible with someone and give you a nudge so to speak

I have an active imagination

@MyNameIsMrsGrumpy I’m opting out, most of my organs are already too damaged to be any use to anyone...so it seems pointless to even try.

Don't you think that the medical professionals are probably best placed to judge that?

How's your eyesight?

I can either rot, burn, or possibly give someone the opportunity to live.
I know what I’d like to happen.

AutumnRose1

That is pretty much it.

Its just a different version of the trolley problem.

No system is entirely safe from abuse.

@TopBitchoftheWitches My ex h refused to be an organ donor after his death, I should have realised then what sort of person he was.

Agree 100%. There are a few things that would be a big red flag for me in a potential partner and that's one of them.

@Stressedout10 I am not allowed to be a blood donor due to my medical condition/disability, however I am allowed to be an organ donor after my death. My family all know my wishes and I carry my donor card in my purse.

You can't only subscribe to a system of belief when it benefits you, and reject it when it has some cost to you

I agree- and if this happened with issues like tax for example, then noone would be paying tax (because noone likes or benefits from giving away their money), yet they would still be expecting free healthcare, emergency services, good schools, etc etc

The systems we have in place to protect the vulnerable depend on everyone in society donating something - in this case, its money. Our society is based on reciprocity whether we like it or not.....

Boney completely understand.

I think it’s incredibly selfish for anyone to opt out. If you do that you should also opt out of ever receiving an organ, should the need ever arise.

slipperywhensparticus

This is the ethical problem within the system.
What are the checks measures to prevent this.
Doctors are only human.

@Lockheart "I will be opting out because I will be donating my body to a medical school."

Have you already organised and paid for your grand plan?

@MGC31

Just FYI

If I wanted to scaremonger I would post things far more nefarious.

I had this discussion with my coworkers recently and one or two said they would opt out but would 'probably feel differently if they needed a kidney'. don't think you should be allowed to receive an organ transplant unless you were opted in to the donor list. Might seem harsh (and probably isn't practicable in law) but the idea that people would refuse to give up something they don't need but still would take it makes me so angry at the hypocrisy. When you are dead you are just a collection of cells and bits of organ, why on earth would it make a difference if you have a few more or less of them?

I have Rtft in the bath and now need to get out but thank you @scarlettBlaize as you answered every one of formerbabes posts just as I would have liked.

You also worded your posts much better than I would have!

That's sad streetatlas but I find it hard to believe that any doctor would do that. To leave a patient in discomfort just to harvest better quality organs? No doctor I know would behave like that. And the doctors treating the patient are not the same doctors considering the organ donation. There should be clear segregation between the two for those reasons. I am very sorry for your loss.

However, they can have whatever they like of mine, DH's and DS's organs. We've had those conversations and know that we would all want to donate if possible.

Although I'm not sure they'd want my liver unless the recipient also had a red wine related blood group.

And if you've never come across an organ recipient before can I direct you to @katiemagnet on Twitter. She was a very healthy and active police officer until she was struck down by a virus, which started like a heavy cold, that seriously damaged her heart, resulting in a transplant being her only option for survival. It can happen to anybody at anytime.

@Retroflex yes I have. Not really a "grand plan" (is there really any need for the sarcasm?) as much as some paperwork but it's all in order.

I wouldn’t date you or be friends with you if you opted out.
Because I would think you were a religious zealot
Or a selfish twat.
Neither of those things I want anything to do with.

@ScarlettBlaize exactly, but not only eyesight, people are even having hand transplants nowadays! Medical professionals will know what they can and cannot work with, so saying that you've got a medical condition so no isn't always a good enough excuse.

I've got a medical condition/disability which prevents me from being a blood donor, however I can and will be an organ donor after I die...

I have to admit that whilst I carry a donor card, and so do my adult children, when my DCs were small I would have found it very difficult to offer any of their organs had they died unexpectedly.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't have done - I hope that I would have been able to help another child, but I honestly don't know. I have nothing but admiration for those generous parents who are able to make that decision. It's an incredibly generous and selfless thing to do.

It will no doubt have an impact which is positive but the idea that the state mandates we give up our organs as standard and we have to actively remove ourselves from that makes me very uncomfortable. Feels like state ownership.

That's sad streetatlas but I find it hard to believe that any doctor would do that. To leave a patient in discomfort just to harvest better quality organs? No doctor I know would behave like that. And the doctors treating the patient are not the same doctors considering the organ donation. There should be clear segregation between the two for those reasons. I am very sorry for your loss.

Probably not deliberately. But people are genuinely kept alive while they match etc. We don't know that they aren't suffering do we? How would you feel if it was your sister/ child/ mother?

I'm a Specialist Nurse in Organ Donation. I bloody love my job. I work with many amazing families who get a lot of comfort from knowing their loved one helped to save lives after their death and I see the incredible differences that life saving transplants make.
As already pointed out- there's quite a few misconceptions on here. Firstly it's important to say that less than 1% of people who die in hospital die in the circumstances in which they can donate their organs. That's why so many of the 6700 people on the transplant lists die each year. We know about 80% of the population support donation and yet only about 60% are opted in.
Part of my role is to support families in these awful situations and give them information about the donation process in order for them to consider organ donation. It goes ahead ONLY with family consent. Yes- families can and will be able to override an opt in/non-opt out. (If you know your family would go against your wishes as daisies pointed out- you can appoint a representative).
And 'The state' does not own your organs after your death.
Organ donation is a completely separate consideration that is made only after someone has either already died from neurological criteria (or brain death) and is on life support in critical care, or where there is a decision already made to withdraw life sustaining treatment due to futility. Organ donation only occurs after death has been legally certified. Recipient matches are only found after consent is taken.
Opt out only includes standard transplants such as liver, heart- not the rare or novel transplants such as limb or womb as these only happen in single centres and a persons family would have to give express consent for any of these.
Please don't assume your organs wouldn't be any good, they are probably working better than those of that person on a transplant list!
My recommendation- if you would want to donate- just continue to opt in.

And even more importantly please talk to your family and loved ones about your wishes.

I am on the fence here.

On the one hand, on the face of it, it seems like a good, decent thing to do, to register as an organ donor (or not DE-REGISTER yourself, as everyone is automatically registered now.)

But I don't like this 'if you are not on the organ donor register, then you don't get to take' mentality. As a few posters have said, why don't we extend that to benefit claimants, and say 'if you haven't paid enough in, you don't get to claim anything' and say to young single mothers who have never worked (or hardly worked,) 'nothing for you, so get the father of your kids, and your family to keep you and your kids.'

Or people who haven't paid enough N.I. contributions 'no health care for you, because your contributions are too feeble. Only well-off folk who have paid lots into the system can get treatment.'

Also, I don't like these stories of people who have a family member/child who is 'waiting on the donor register' for a liver, or a heart, or whatever, (to save their life.)

I know people are desperate, and passionate about the life of their loved one, but they are basically waiting for/hoping for someone to die, so they/their loved one can live.

That's the reality. No matter how people try and twist it.