To think apart from mortgage it is possible to live debt free!?

[Moneytalkone]

Just that really, AIBU to think that it is possible to live debt free, that debt isn’t a necessity in life! Apart from a mortgage I suppose if you want to own a house. Had a chat with a friend who claimed that debt is given these days, it’s almost an accepted/expected part of life? What do you think?

You're naive if you really think it's possible to live without any debt.

Do you mean 'if it's possible for everyone to live without debt'? Otherwise this makes no sense.

Of course it's possible to live without debt- as evidenced on this thread.

Yes. I've never had any debt - no loans, store cards, things on credit etc. The way I grew up meant I learnt to only get what I could afford. That's not a dig on any one BTW, just my life. If I didn't have the money I didn't buy it and saved until I could. It's served me well and it's how I plan to continue aside from the mortgage.

Of course it’s possible if you have enough income

And for everyone slating people who "shouldn't" have new tech or be eating out, two points to consider:

1. The cost of new tech can be overall cheaper than the alternative. For example, get a new phone with unlimited internet can easily be more affordable on a variable income than an upfront purchase of a handset + the cost of internet + the cost of a phone/text package.

1. When your life is one long shitshow, small pleasures can sometimes be the thing that keeps you going. You or I may be easily able to take ourselves out to dinner on a whim, but maybe that family takeaway being sneered at is a bit of pleasure in an otherwise hard life.

Don’t be ridiculous @JacquesHammer, there’s nothing “privileged” about spending less than you make. It’s incredibly insulting to imply that poor people automatically have to get into debt because there’s no other way to manage. We’ve been poverty line poor at several points, but we’ve never been in debt

Then you have had some level of privilege it worked out that way.

Please show me where I said "poor people automatically have to get into debt" - otherwise it might be best not to suggest someone else is ridiculous because of your own inference.

Neron would that have worked if, for example, your boiler died in the middle of winter and you didn’t have the savings to replace it? Would you live without a boiler until you saved for a new one? Would your answer be the same if you had children?

No, I don't think it is possible for many to live debt free at all. Not when so many are forced to live hand to mouth due to low wages, caring responsibilities etc. You need internet these days to find work, that costs money. Libraries and community hubs have vanished in many areas. You need a car to get to work because public transport outside major cities is patchy and expensive, how do you afford that without credit when you are in insecure minimum wage employment?

Would you live without a boiler until you saved for a new one?

And of course that's assuming there's enough each month to put money into savings.

Depends on income. I only have a mortgage.

*Really?!! So, you’re working full time doing shift work, have 3 kids and have enough spare time to do a full family wash, including bed sheets by hand.

Maybe as you have so much spare time available, you might like to volunteer a bit of it in a local food bank or the Citizens Advice and then come back here and talk about how you’ve helped your clients to easily live within their means, just by being frugal.* 🤦🏻‍♀️

I didn't say it was easy or that I wasn't sleep deprived. Why don't you volunteer? I already do enough for my community. Seriously, for most people it is a mind set thing. You need to be able to afford medicin, accomodation, a matras, 2 sets of clothes, soap, water, heating and food. The rest is negotiable. Truely. And you shouldn't plan children till you're debt free (yes accidents happen, that is why I say "most people").

I don’t think it requires privilege to live debt free. As a single parent of 2 for many years working a minimum wage job part time, I have never had any debt apart from mortgage. Lived week to week admittedly, as there was always something to gobble up any money put aside. I couldn’t afford to service any debt as well. If I didn’t have the cash to buy something then it didn’t get bought.

Would you live without a boiler until you saved for a new one?

The point is though, that if you can spend the money each month paying off the new boiler, you should have used the same money each month to save up for the new boiler.

Live within your means is all well and good if your means are enough to live within.

We have no debt apart from mortgage but our life is very different to say a single parent trying to support kids on nmw.

Off course it’s possible to be debt free and live with in your means.

But there is also good debt for example 10 years ago we bought a car with a 0% credit card cost £5000 over the next two years we paid £300 month in to a 5% regular saver with First Direct. Card was cleared before 0% ran out and we had some interest at the end as a bonus.

I also use credit cards a lot for cashback and points always cleared monthly gives us some extra protection and a small cashback amount.

The point is though, that if you can spend the money each month paying off the new boiler, you should have used the same money each month to save up for the new boiler

Except other things could have come up in that time to eat up your savings. So you’ve managed to save £20 a month for a year. That’s £240. Your fridge freezer needs replacing, so you find one second hand for £50. You’re then down to £190. You dab for another 5 months... £290. Your car (needed for work) needs some work doing, costing £100. You save for another year, luckily had no emergencies in that year... £430. Your boiler dies. It’s going to cost £1000 for a new one. What do you do? Save for another 2 years? Or take out a loan for the remainder, and use the £20 you would normally save to pay the repayments?

I don't have any significant debt. I regularly buy on a credit card with the rule being I pay off within the interest free period, pay £50 pcm, and don't spend more than £500 with only one card active at a time. So I pay it off before buying another large item.

Of course it’s possible if you have enough income

Or if you leave in a cheap area. I'm constantly shocked at how much people in the SE/London spend on their rent. Our mortgage on a decent-sized two bed terrace with a garden is just £300, and in some cities that wouldn't even buy you a room in a shared house.

But I also think living in expensive areas is a choice and sometimes choices like that mean you can't always live within your means.

I've never been in any debt aside from our mortgage. I'm 32. DH is 36 and the same.

@Elbeagle yes I did have to go without when my boiler broke. I had to wait until payday for it to be repaired. I don't have children so I wouldn't know - but then back then I couldn't have afforded to have children even if I wanted them (I don't).

As I said in my post, it's how I was raised and it was an abusive shitty time. I learnt to go without and work around things and I also learnt to not be anything like my parents and to do better. It was never easy, but it's how it was.

BTW I started out, I was paying back Uni loan, paying rent, food etc, and saving for both a house and wedding when I was on under £9k/yr. I didn't save a lot initially, but I DID save money every week, commuted by bicycle rather than bus most days, bought cheap food etc. When we actually married and got our house, I had changed job and earned somewhat more (not huge money but around 15k) but now had commuting costs one way at least daily (DH hours meant we couldn't share both ways) before the tax free commuting scheme came in, mortgage was huge, but we still managed. We had to buy almost all the furniture and white goods for the house (dining table and chairs were a wedding present, kitchen table came from a DGAunt's house being cleared, washing machine and tumble dryer came from another DGAunt downsizing (she needed a washer/dryer in her new house), and we had both gathered some kitchen equipment living away from home).

I see lots of people who need to have the best of everything - on credit. Who can't cook properly - all from jars or takeaways or ready meals. Who replace a pair of trousers if the hem has come undone rather than sewing or ironing wonda-web the hem back into place. Who would never dream of reheeling or resoling a pair of shoes. Who must have a massive tv, games console and all the latest games. ….

My DSis only ever buys chicken breasts - she would never buy a whole chicken (for the same price!) and get a lot more meals from it. Or buy boned chicken thighs (which are cheaper and also tastier!). She also buys her veggies already prepared - which costs her a lot more for that convenience. Peeling a couple of carrots and chopping them takes less than 5 minutes - is it worth more than doubling the cost for that?

Yes there are reasons why debt is needed, especially if on a very low income or an emergency happens so things need fixing or replacing.

But you don't go on 3 holidays per year, all overseas, when your budget allows a week self catering in this country. And yet, that is what lots of people expect to do - think of their happiness today and not worry about tomorrow.

I have spent time stomping on clothes in the bath to wash them, and then wrung them out to get them dry enough to hang on the line when we've had no washing machine at home (some of those were when there were cloth nappy clad babies in the house).

I've made so many dinners from very bare cupboards.

But what if it couldn’t be repaired Neron? What if it was going to take a year to save for the replacement? 2 years?
It’s not cut and dry.

But I also think living in expensive areas is a choice and sometimes choices like that mean you can't always live within your means god I hate this attitude. I was born in London, my support system is in London, my job is "well paid" in London comparatively. If I lost my job I would more easily find another 1 in London. I dont live in Kensington by any means- It's my home and Im allowed to moan that its expensive

Of course it's possible, and it's not even that difficult, but it's a mind set.
Save until you can buy something, don't take loan.

I have credit cards too, but they are not debt, I pay them in full, and only use them because they are safer and give points. I don't need a loan.

How many people could not consider or accept spending a couple of months sleeping on the floor until they can afford a bed? How many people would consider living without a fridge for a month until they can afford one? Washing machine breaks? wash by hand every day, or go to laundrette at the weekend (but it's pricey).

Don't even get started on holidays, redecorating the place, tv, clothes..

Yes, you need food, to pay your bills and the tax man, possibly medicine but everything else is a just a slippery slope. It's a choice.

It’s much harder to be frugal if you’re disabled and/or unwell and cannot physically do some of the tasks. If a person were to be managing on their money and unexpectedly become seriously injured, their sick pay may run out, benefits are meagre and they find themselves in a very difficult position.

lt can be a mixed blessing. l worked with a girl when l was young and we were going on holiday. When it was time to pay the balance she turned up at my parents' house with at least two months worth of unopened pay packets.
Later on when she was married, they lived in a house which came with her husband's job. When she was pregnant and they needed to buy a house, even though they had a decent deposit, they really struggle to get a mortgage as neither of them had any credit history at all. They'd always paid cash for everything.