Not to let my kids alone with my dad

[Nightflower]

Sorry, this will probably turn into a long post

Backstory... When I was @5 years old my parents and mom's parents had a big argument as a result GP moved away. My parents went to work during the day and I was left alone to go to school/get back, take care of my younger brother and also take care of the chickens, do the dishes and basic cooking on the gas stove as in boiling eggs ( country side in another country if makes any difference)
My dad would beat me if I would forget to collect the chicken eggs, if I would break a plate when doing the dishes, if I was misspelling a word when doing my homework. He took all my dolls one year ( I remember I received a doll each from grandma and my aunt for my birthday, so I only had them for a few months) and set them on fire and made me watch because I didn't tidy up my playing space.
If I talked to mum's parents he would beat me.
When I was @10 my grandma ( dad's mom ) died. Me and my brother were moved with my grandpa in the city so he won't be alone after grandma died.
My parents would have us over weekend. My dad would pick us up Friday after he finished work ( he worked in the city) and dropped us back on Monday morning before school started.
He didn't had the opportunity to beat me any more but then he started to abuse me verbally ... no one would like to be friends with a country girl, they only pretend to be your friends but they talk behind your back. My grades were never satisfactory for him (I was always in top 5 in class)
I slowly started gaining some weight but I was just slightly overweight. Dad started saying stuff like you look like a house/whale. No one would like you, you will end up an old maid, I am ashamed to talk next to you on the street.
When I was diagnosed with POS he laughed in my face and said now you will never have kids.
This go on until I was in high school when I finally confident in my friends about my weekly verbally abuse from dad ( he would lash out at me with all of the above mostly in the car or when alone) .
The few times I told my mum what dad did/said she would see it as an exaggeration or brush it of with the he only says/do so because he cares about you...and until I was @15 yrs old I very stupidly belived it and I was certain that it's my fault some how and I deserved what he was telling me.
That was until my friends told me that he is not right and what he does/says is very wrong.
I was grownup enough to say no to weekly visits back home to my parents, but I still had to spend my holidays there.
Since I moved in the city I contacted my mum's parents and had secret meetings untill dad realised that it's better to let me see/talk to them than me meeting them in secret. I was crap at lying and he and grandpa figure it out. A year or so after that my mom started talking to them - as she wasn't allowed either)
@18 I was at mom's parents when I found out she had a lover. That summer we went all to the sea side -me and my parents and mom's lover and his wife ( sounds like a movie scenario ) ...anyway holiday over, I went back to grandpa and mom,dad and my brother country home.
Next day I got a call from mom, dad beat her up (obviously he figure it out about the affair). I went straight away to the country side and things sort of got out of control when dad got back home from work. I can't remember what exactly but somewhere on the line that I talked back on one of his remarks ( I would usually bow my head down and/or start crying ) and he got upset and said how do I dare to talk back to him after all he has done/sacrificed for me/us. I just let it all out, told him he ruined my childhood, he would always put me down,never happy, never encouraging me, always beatings and insults. I have never seen his so angry in my life. He just lashed at me, slaped me knocking me down on the sofa, and then he kept hitting me. I was pushing him with my legs, and my mom and brother pulling him and we barely managed to get him to stop hitting me. We locked ourself in the living room and spend the night there me, my mom and my brother. Me and mom left the next day ( me to my grandpa and her to her parents)
She wanted divorce and dad initially agreed to it but then he started texting mom ... one message was him begging her to come back the next one threatening her that he will kill me and my brother so she can suffer before killing her and then take his own life. ( when he was @16 he stole his dad's car, had an accident, 2 were killed and he was in a coma for a few months ) and he was telling mom he killed before nothing will stop him doing so again.
...so yeah...mom got back to him.
I refused to talked to him or call him dad ...but mom begged me to be civil with him and talk and call him dad and basically pretend nothing bad ever happened for her sake.
Fast forward @26 years old. I moved to UK, got married and had kids
I talked to dad very very very rare and never more than a few sentences and most of the time I answer with yes/no/maybe. I call him dad but it's just an empty word for me.
He wasn't happy that I moved so far away from home (3h flight), not happy because I married an asian man (this after years of telling me I will die alone without anyone loving me, or having kids and somehow it become unfair for him not to have grandkids from me )
First time I went visiting after having my kids he told me I should had married someone there because my twins look dark (skin) ( to be fair I am european but we have asian ancestors somewhere down the line because me and my dad and his dad are a couple of shade darker than my mom and her family ...and my kids are maybe a shade darker than I am )
Dad called my kids slow and stupid for not walking until after their 1st birthday. My DS is a whimp and a mommy's boy because he likes cuddles. My DD is going to grow up fat like me because she is not skin and bones ( she is just average normal weight for her age). My DS needs a week alone with him ( dad) and he will make sure he will eat all his food or else he will be punished

Now ... my mom still doesn't understand thru what I have been when I was a child, she still tries to defend/find excuses for dad and even if at some point she did agree what he did was wrong she asked me to leave it in the past.
Dad retired last year and since then mom been nagging me to let the kids (3 and a half years old ) to live with them for the summer holidays. She would be at work and the kids alone with dad till she gets back home. Dad got depressed because retirement as he would have nothing to do ( early retirement as he has some health problems) and mom thinks having the kids there would be perfect to keep my dad occupied and insists that dad loves them so much and he misses them and so on.

I would never leave them alone with dad and I can't exactly tell mom I am not letting the kids there over the summer holidays because of him, because she won't understand besides she is adamant that he is a changed man and he loves them very much ( he told me that he needs a week alone to make my DS eat all his food just a few months ago)

Am I BU for not letting my kids spend the holidays alone with my dad?

Your duty of care is toward your kids. Would you recommend your dad to a friend who was looking for a babysitter? I doubt it. Then why on earth would you even consider leaving your own child with such a person.

Sorry but your mom is a victim here and an abused wife. Like most abused spouses they are so psychologically messed up that they blame themselves, etc. With that in mind, I wouldn't allow my children in the same room as her and your abuser. I wouldn't allow my children to be with my abused mother unsupervised.

It's awful that she'll suffer from those decisions, but your number one responsibility and priority here is to provide a safe, stable, abuse free existence for your children. No matter how much you love your mother, she did NOT provide you with that existence growing up, and so it is reasonable to assume from her past actions, that she can't or won't provide that type of atmosphere for your children.

I'm sorry. I know it's hard to make rules that cause people you love unhappiness. It's the right thing to do though.

Keep the children away from both your parents

My DS needs a week alone with him ( dad) and he will make sure he will eat all his food or else he will be punished

No no no no no.
If I were you, my kids would never even MEET this man who calls himself your dad. You know what he is like. Your entire family know what he is like. You are absolutely reasonable to never let your children be alone with him - even if your mother is there.

DH has my back. He doesn't want them alone with them based on my past with dad but has no objection to mom or the rest of the family.
I am so glad you are well supported by DH.
However - please do not trust your mum.
The moment she has sole charge of your children, she will be under pressure by this so-called "changed man" & she will give in. It will be a point of principle for him - a power play - to make sure he can get hold of your kids without your permission or knowledge.

I would never leave them alone with dad and I can't exactly tell mom I am not letting the kids there over the summer holidays because of him
You not only can, you MUST. It is our duty & responsibility to your children. Or do you want them to be writing agonised posts of their own when they are adults, damaged by their GP who their DM let get hold of them?
Your mother is minimising, enabling, whitewashing, & in cahoots with your dad.
FFS the woman had to pull him off you with your brother's help. She understands all right - she is simply asking you to pretend it all never happened, so that she gets to play happy families at your kids' expense.
Do NOT let your mother pretend otherwise: your dad is a violent monster who should be nowehere near children. You have to tell her, & show her, that you will not be railroaded on this.
It is YOUR decision. Make it the right one.

because she won't understand besides she is adamant that he is a changed man and he loves them very much
As above - she DOES understand. She just wishes you dd not, as if her saying "he's changed" enough times will make it true. I expect he "loved" you as well, huh?

Frankly, I would go NC with your dad, & allow your mother to visit the children at yours or have days out with her. I would NEVER let her take the children without myself or my DH present.

Apologies OP with how strongly I am wording this.
I had similar childhood experiences to you - the family member responsible was never allowed to be alone with my own DD. Tough shit. The person responsible had brutalised & traumatised me - no way were they going to get a chance to do it to my child. Or even a chance to "do better this time, because I've changed".

Changed, my arse. A childbeater never changes. Even if your dad never uses his fists again, he's still got his evil mouth. Don't give him any oportunity to mess with your childrens' heads. You are absolutely in the right here - & you & DH are your kids' only protectors against their vile, abusive GP.

(But why would anyone send three-year-olds away for a summer, anyway? they're not toys to be hired out. )

Because not everybody lives homogenously in a white British culture, @katy1213, & it's a common a practivce elsewhere in the world as it once was, historically, here.

She was abused.

However, trying to manipulate you into allowing him to continue to abuse you and your children is also abusive. She is part of the abuse as well. Be very careful because I wouldn't trust her to keep DC safe either.

You would be irresponsible to let your kids anywhere near a man like this.
You would be right to have no contact with your parents too.

Sorry but your mum is 100% an abuser too.

She let a man abuse her children. I Wouldnt let them anywhere near my kids.

And i would be telling her exctly why whether she doesnt see it or not or uses excuses at least your kids would be safe.

I feel that if I tell mum about the reason why we don't want to visit/let the kids with her she will be heartbroken

OP - she already knows.
Stop putting other people's feelings ahead of your own.
You know what the right thing to do is - & "the truth shall set you free."

& btw you will find your dad described in perfect clarity in Lundy Bancroft's book "Why Does He Do That". I hope you find is as helpful as some of the therapy you have done (& congratulations btw on getting ahold of yourself psychologically at such a young age - you should feel proud & triumphant!).

If you still feell bad about your mum, order a hard copy version of this (see link) & have her read it when she comes to visit you - for obvious reasons she won't be able to take it home with her ...
www.docdroid.net/py03/why-does-he-do-that.pdf

Jesus fuckin Christ woman, why are you having anything to do with this man at all, get your kids the fuck away from him and never ever put them in harms way by allowing him to breathe the same air as him ever again!

I think you've done incredibly well to get away and put physical distance between you and your parents. Emotional distance is harder to do but you really need to start cutting out the contact with your mum and dad, nothing you've said about them warrants the name 'parents'. Can you write to or phone your grandpa and somehow bypass everyone else? It sounds like you have a lovely dh and children, focus on them.

Fgs what is wrong with you?? Are you really asking this question? I would think you are just as bad as them if you allow your children withing breathing space of them. Your mother did it to you, and now you are dancing around whether you should let her have them??
You are completely deluded If you think your mother was any good to you. She was just as much to blame for the abuse because she saw what happened and did nothing. And here you are even questioning your kids safety??

I am not trying to defend my mom ..too much.
She should had left dad long ago but she was and maybe in some ways still is a simple country girl from a not so long ago communist country. She grew up without having access to many informations and everything was pretty much tabu. She married and had no clue what so ever how babies are made. I truly think she was just a prey for dad, someone who was easily manipulated and he was/is mentally draining her and abusing her just as he did with me.
It didn't matter if he was in the wrong he would twist things so badly that it made me believe it was my fault to begin with and I deserved the punishment.
She is absolutely blaming herself for being weak, for not doing enough for me and for not knowing how to stand up.
I don't blame her, I can not. I know it's been a living hell with her to live with my dad and I think he just broke her spirit, not to mention manipulated her that she feels like she is nothing.
We haven't talked about for over 10 years now, and I am afraid to bring up the subject. Since she keeps pushing me to have more contact with dad it drives me mad just for that.
He suffered a heart attack 3 years ago and she went into meltdown as in she wouldn't be able to survive whitout dad because he takes care of everything. It didn't sink it with her that my brother will be there/living with her to help or that she is not the first or the last widow. She felt so small and not good for anything and useless/worthless and I know those feeling too well as dad made me feel like that for years until I wanted to end my life because I saw no reason for a worthless me to exist on this earth.
It was my salvation to go live with my grandpa, and having access to a city school, having friends who opened my eyes and access to mental health care.
I wish she was stronh enough to get out of this abusive relationship but by the looks of it it's too late for her. It's her choice and she lives with guilt but I can't make choices for her nor can I fight her battles. She has my support and my brother and her family in case of wanting to get away, but I think the thought of us dead by the hands of dad in case she leaves lets her tied up. If she would be living in Uk I would call the police on him and have him locked up and be free of him, unfortunately the justice system back home it's...lacking.

I am sorry I still don't know how to tag people/multiple people to answer directly.
Things could had been a lot worse regarding my dad and myself, I am well aware of that and grateful that it didn't go down darker paths. I am sorry you had to go thru a horrible/worse childhood.

I know people like this. If you humour them they just push harder. There are only two things to say 1. No and 2. I don’t give a fuck. Next time you see your father I would suggest you pull him aside and tell him that while he is very good at manipulating your mother he isn’t any good at manipulating you so he should just stop embarrassing himself. Tell him that he has no control over you and you don’t care what he does to your mother (this is his only weapon against you). In the short term he will get worse but if you hold firm and keep tell him/him through your mother that no and you don’t care he’ll eventually stop.

The only reason why people behave this way is because they’ve been allowed to get away with it. They know if they push long enough they’ll get what they want. If you make it clear that you cannot be manipulated they stop (bar an occasional episode). I speak from experience here (sadly).

I'd be reluctant to leave him alone with a dog, let alone my DC! I have a wonderful relationship with my parents but still wouldn't send my 3yos to stay in a different country with them for a whole summer without me there. You are definitely not being unreasonable.

And why does your mum think your kids will improve his bad health?! Little kids can be stressful and I don't think someone with your dad's temper would have his health improved by them staying with him. Children aren't appropriate medicine for your dad's health problems.

As well as the physical abuse, you mention he spent years painting your mum in a bad light, how do you think he'd speak about you to your kids when you're not there?

No to going to stay when he will be in the house because
She never defended you
She has never accepted what he's done or said to you
If something happened, she'd put him first
He enjoys the power over people.

And tbh I wouldn't ever speak to him again, dm can visit you alone.

Op I have no advice but I just want to let you know I read your Post and think you are utterly amazing. If my kids grow up as strong , eloquent and loving as you I’d be so happy

Don't subject your children to having ANY kind of relationshi/contact with this 'man' (I actually think he is worse than an animal for the way he treated you). Protect your children the way nobody protected you when you were a child. He is a vile individual and does not deserve to have anything to do with you or your family.

Why can’t you tell your mother why you don’t want to leave them alone with him.

They have both been shitty parents.

I don’t know why you have any contact with both of them.

You know what your dad is like.

Even now he is still trying to throw his weight around telling you what you should and shouldn’t have done and your mother on her part has made her choice and needs to live with it.

Oh and no, I do not trust my mom alone with dad and the kids . No! I know she is weak. It would be a different story if dad was out of the picture as in... locked up, not anywhere near mom or dead.

I trust mom with the kids alone. She is a completely diferent person away from dad. I don't know how to describe it other that she is not walking on eggshells or afraid to actually speak up her mind without making my dad going into rage mode. I think of her as a version of me when I was young, I was her, the way she feels, the way he control her..it was me, but she didn't had my friends, my support my access to so much more than a small village from no where or my strenght . She never lay a finger on me or my brother and she would try to stop dad hiting me, but he would either lock the door or lash on her as well.
She hasn't told a soul about her relationship with dad until 12 yrs ago because she thought no one would believe her, and many didn't. As I said dad was/is the perfect husband/dad in eyes of many, an educated and funny man. He is a different person in public and a completely different one behind closed doors.
When I was going visiting he would start his insults and bullying me when she wasn't around( that's in my 20's) . I was for Easter/Xmas there with grandpa and dad would look for that perfect time when no one could hear what's on his mind and then he would talk to me in this sweet sickening voice calling me his princess and his little girl. It waw making me sick hearing him.
I then started to make my own plans for Easter or new year's eve but Xmas was a family time, as in even if I wanted to make plans with friends they would be with their families.

yanbu...he would be dead to me years before this... he would never be mentioned never see gcs....

Please please do not allow your kids to go there. Your mum failed to protect you from this monster, don’t be like her

I think I am at fault. As I did put others in front of me pretty much my whole life. Growing up believing that I am no one, just a worthless shade on the earth, I think that it wouldn't matter if I get hurt some more if by that I can make someone else happy/ they won't take the hit, I would and I think I was afraid to become like my dad and hurt those around me.
I would always give in to my mom's plea because I didn't want to see her hurt, and by that I think I have been her enabler and gave her free pass to emotionally blackmail, she got used to it but I sort of grew out of it, at least would tell her no but then
I am stressed that I made her upset, but I would still hold my ground.

I know I have made the right decision and I wouldn't have my kids around dad.

I wanted to hear some brutal answers and cast away any doubt I might had. It also makes me think better when I talk about it, even if it would be me writing it to no one ( I find that a little bit strange but there it is)
Maybe it's time to be brutal with mom as well and tell her why I don't want to visit with the kids yet alone have them there by themselves. I know she loves them and maybe knowing she might as well never see them ( unless she visits us) would open her eyes at how grave the situation is... on the other hand she might stay in her bubble but again it will be her choice.
I am not a little girl any more and my husband and kids are my family and my priority. I can be strong for them and put my foot down.
I think it's about time to put my foot down, firmly, with mom as well and stop taking it on me to make things better for her.

I think I am at fault.

You are not at fault. Your father is the only one to blame.

You are doing the right thing by protecting your children now. But if I were you I would stop contact altogether.

He wouldn't be seeing me or my children.. Accompanied or not EVER