To think it's very unreasonable for school not to take my word DS is sick.

[VioletsArePurple]

DS has been home sick (sore throat, fever, headache) for three days. I have emailed them each day to inform them he is ill. No response from them on day 1 or day 2. He's going back tomorrow. Today (day 3) I got I an email from school with the following text: "...Just wanted to check in regarding how XXX is doing and also from an attendance perspective. Our school policy around holidays is to mark a child as unauthorised absence unless we have medical evidence for their illness. I wonder if you have been to the GP or hospital and if you have any evidence of this or a prescription bottle you could email us a photo of so I can change his attendance to illness once he comes back in."

AS it happens I was at the GP this afternoon for an appointment for me. And behind reception there was a sign stating:

SICK NOTES FOR SCHOOL ABSENCE
Your GP does not provide this information.
Please do not book an appointment.
A school should accept a note from the child's parent or guardian.
Speak to reception for further information.

Now, I should point out I actually love our school. But this email annoyed me. They have no idea how much I was looking forward to the first day of school. They can have DS all of next break to make up for it if they like.

Piggy Are you able to answer my question from last evening about the scenario in which a parent refuses to provide additional information of illness?

What could actually happen?
Children are recorded as having unauthorised absence, not illness, but surely that bothers Ofsted more than parents.

Court & legal action is often discussed, but surely there would need to be evidence that parents had indeed been on holiday for a prosecution to go forward?

I don’t get it.

If it’s unauthorised surely that would count towards the potential to be fined?

I had this with my DS2 when he was off with yet another sickness bug. They accepted sight of a calpol bottle as evidence (even though not a drop of it passed his lips!) 🙄

What a pointless email.

Most stuff you manage at home with OTC meds. Why would you bother a dr for something that's common and just requires a day or 2 in bed. They must have most the bloody school on unauthorised absences that will do their stats good

Ridiculous. GP surgery's already don't have enough appointments for people needing them, I had to call every morning hoping for an appointment and eventually got one after 4 days of trying. They just carnt accommodate lots of extra appointments for minor childhood illnesses that most parents deal with without medical input, it takes appointments away from people in genuine need of one.

It’s ridiculous. The Nhs is under huge strain and shouldn’t be expected to write sicknotes for a cold or cough etc. Even in a job you’d be self-certificating for that length or time.

Send them in poorly and let them infect the school. When the school ring to collect ask them for doctors evidence of the illness.

Maybe because you emailed? What does it say about reporting absence. I know at last work place you had to call before 9 and speak to x or y. people were disciplined if they emailed or DH called. You could email more easily from abroad than call. Maybe that’s what has triggered it.

actually that is a good point emailing in for 3 days after Christmas is slightly suspicious

In fairness @BuggerOffAndGoodDayToYou, if schools didn’t have such ridiculous attendance policies, there would be no need for lying.
Yeah that ^
And generally its not "feckless" families who lie about their kids being ill when they are missing a couple of days, it's POORER families. I took dc abroad once and they were going to miss 2 days at the start of term because it was the difference between £900 flight and £300 flight. I told the class teachers the truth just so they were aware (they said have a great time) and lied to the school reception.
There's no way we can go abroad again unless we overlap slightly with term time.
The only reason I haven't done it more is because I never got enough annual leave to cover school holidays let alone extra time off (have different job now and kids are older ).

It’s down to attendance statistics and being accountable to the powers that be. Schools are under massive, massive amounts of pressure over everything and have to constantly cover themselves.

I would disregard the email and get on with my day personally. It’s not important to you and who’s going to ask you child for his school attendance record one day anyway?

Don’t take it personally.

I've seen something on a FB board for children who are school phobic. Apparently the Department for Education was approached about this and said that for short absences schools absolutely should accept parents' word and not expect medical evidence. They said that any instances of this happening should be reported via their contact form, which I assume is online. Go for it, OP!

Evidence from your GP isn't necessarily a sick note . All the schools round here accept an appointment card with the time you attended slotted in . You can ask for them at any reception . Even drop in / emergency appointments can be post slotted in . They are filed in by the receptionists and all practices have them .

Send a picture of the GP notice along with loads of links about how colds/viruses can't be treated with prescription medicine. Being off school just after xmas hols isn't uncommon. It's still winter and illnesses are prolific at this time of year. This winter period has been particularly bad.

I had this at my ds's school. He hadn't actually had that many days off, except for about 4 in a row at the start of term last year when he was genuinely laid up ill with a virus. He has Aspergers and we didn't realise but he didn't like arriving with all the crowds of pupils in the morning, so he was regularly late. Because if this, they told me if he had any more time off sick, we'd have to provide a drs note. The next time he was ill, he felt sick. I managed to get him in at the drs that day (they made us see a nurse) who basically laughed at me and said 'you don't need a drs note for one day', I said what the school said and he said he wasn't going to write a drs note as he thought my d's would be ok to take an ibroprufen and go back to school, but he would write a letter saying we attended the drs.
I didn't send him back to school because later in the afternoon he vomited, I saw him do it. The rules are no school for 48hrs for sickness or diarreah. The school never asked me to produce a letter so I didn't bother. I think it's just to scare people. Now I don't bother even trying, I will just say I was unable to get a drs appointment if they ever ask again.

I wonder if your school is based in another country? In most cases you can't get a GP appointment for about 3 weeks unless it's an emergency, which a bad cold/bug isn't (usually).

As others have said, send a photo of the GP notice and point out that it takes week to get an appointment by which your ds will have been back at school for weeks, too. And throw in a line about not appreciating being accused of lying, if you are feeling particularly bolshy.

I had this issue at school, my ds 6 had been in school but Ill with chesty cough, sore throat & temperature, they sent him home in the afternoon. I kept him off the next day.
He was due to go swimming on the day he returned, in which they walk a mile each way to the swimming baths. Ds was better but not fully recovered & with it being Winter & cold and I explained to teacher that I thought it best he sat this one out as walking home with wet hair could make him ill again. Teacher then says it's part of the national curriculum and I need a sick note I explained that gp surgery do not provide sick notes for kids but she was welcome to ring them to confirm if needs be & as school has sent him home they were aware he was ill. After a few minutes haggling where I suggested I would keep him off for the day instead, she soon changed her mind and let him sit it out at school.

weeks to get an appointment (if only it took a week, though that would still be too long)

Admittedly I did get a same day appointment for my ds a few weeks ago. I nearly fell off my chair when the receptionist said he could see the doctor at 9am that same morning!

They are in breech of data protection laws, and hopefully they will fix it without me having to point the seriousness of their error out to them.*
School is asking you to do unreasonable stuff when you have a sick child to care for (although I do understand the extended holiday comments above).
Keep them busy by submitting a GDPR-data subject access request.

If a doctor refused to provide a note when a child had appendicitis and missed an exam it would be a different story. In that situation they should give a note

Just to clarify

• a sick note (actually now called a 'fit note') is a statutory form for the purpose of providing evidence for employer/DWP
• a note for any other purpose (school, work before 7 days when a person can self-certify) is not a statutory requirement and not an NHS service
• schools have been given directions by exam councils regarding evidence etc required
• if something is not an NHS service, the GP is being asked to use the time he could otherwise be doing his NHS work to do this - it is a private service. For this reason, GPs usually want to reduce the (unnecessary) paperwork and will charge, as it's a private service. Organised practices will often have a letter, as mentioned above, that asks the school to obtain consent from parents and pay the charge

(I'm not a GP, but have looked at the requirements)

I wonder if it's because you emailed rather than called in? Generally comes across as more evident?
At my kids school they just take me at my word and we dont have to 'prove' illness. I'd give them a call and say it needs to go down as sickness.

No way would I let this go. It is no more appropriate for a school to invent reasons for children’s absences than it is for parents to do so. The school are taking this position because they think you are on holiday, so common sense says you just need to prove you are actually at home and your child is ill at home with you. I would have taken a selfie of you next to the sign in the GP’s surgery, photos, including date, of you and child at home, even photos of your child’s sore throat if they wish to be obnoxious - and would tell them I expect an apology for apparently being expected to go to such ridiculous lengths to be believed to be honest. It is not acceptable to take the stance that everyone must be a liar, or even worse, just to think you in particular are, on the back of no evidence to justify their belief. But then I personaly find it exceptionally offensive to be called a liar.

Presumably the reason for the extra vigilance around holidays is that they've had people claiming sickness when really they were taking advantage of cheaper flights home. In which case, perhaps they would settle for a photo (time-stamped) of your child tucked up in bed looking pale, or sitting having Calpol spooned in. Of course, it would have been easier if they'd told you on the first day of absence that they wanted evidence, because hopefully he's looking a bit better now.
Next time he's sick, include a photo of the sick in your email!

Before end of term my ds school emailed to say any child off sick before the end of term I. E the Thursday or Friday or the start of the new term will need doctors proof as they see a rise in absence tagging onto school holidays

Although some do lie about it, some schools seem not to grasp that it really is possible to get sick on any day, regardless of how close it may or may not be to a holiday.

There's also the consideration that a lot of schools wind down in the last day or two before the end of term with fun activities rather than actual learning. What's the point in relentlessly pursuing parents and/or giving kids a black mark for attendance just because they weren't there to watch Toy Story and play snakes & ladders?

I agree with the PP - if GP surgeries are going to do this on the whim of a school, then the school should be billed for the GP's private service. There may also be a case for the parent claiming back travel and parking costs to and from the GP too.

Going to a GP and wasting precious NHS time is like getting the garage to send out a recovery truck and give your car a full diagnostic to see why it's stopped working when you know the fuel tank is completely empty and you could have just walked to the petrol station with a fuel canister.

What is the GP actually going to prove anyway? Anybody can put on a chesty cough, talk like they have a cold and ham up the 'feeling sick' symptoms. At any rate, you could just lie about having been sick or had diarrhoea. Are they going to berate you for not grabbing your phone in time and filming in real time inside the toilet pan as whatever nastiness emerges from either/both ends? Or expect you to film the results afterwards - which could easily be mocked up with gravy or soup anyway, if you're that desperate? How dignified

There's also the fact that feeling terribly sick with a bug or whatever means you just want (need) to stay in bed for the day (or two) until it passes. If you know you're going to have to get the child up and go out anyway (and possibly be on the phone all morning trying to get a last-minute available appointment), you might figure that you're just as well to get them up and send them to school. Once they're at school, they aren't going to learn anything feeling like that and may well be disruptive - all they'll do is pass it on to everybody else. Then the school is left with 30 potential absences and having to generate and follow up 30 lots of 'we assume you're lying unless you prove otherwise' letters.

Incidentally, schools sometimes phone parents during the day to come and fetch their child if the child has been sick or otherwise taken a bad turn. How would they like it if a busy working parent demanded that they email 'proof' that the child really is sick before agreeing to come and collect them?

It's so sad that it's come to this - and I know it's pressure from the government and LEAs driving it. When I was a child, parents had a good working relationship with the school, based on mutual trust and respect. We could request up to two weeks of holiday in term time (my sister and I usually had one week) and this was granted, unless there were concerns about a child's attendance or other circumstances. Children who were constantly absent without explanation were followed up, but there was never any automatic assumption that the parents were lying if a child was off sick for a day or two - they just asked for the child to take a brief note from their parents when they returned (mainly to ensure that the parent was aware that the child had not been in school), filed it away and that was that.

The cultures that schools are working under is very damaging and erodes the relationship between school and families.

DS was ill before Christmas, and on day 4 of school absence (straddling a weekend) he had symptoms strongly ressembling mumps. It shouldn't be mumps, he's been vaccinated, it's rare in that age group, but it's not beyond impossible, so I tried over 35 times to phone the GP which was engaged every single time. As it happens he began picking up over lunch time and was functional enough to manage the last few days of term (apparently he was beyond the contagious period if it had been mumps anyway)

Most of the time for regular and viral illnesses it isn't necessary to go to the GP. GPs do not have the provision to accommodate the load they have, let alone dealing with the petty beaurocracies imposed by educational policy.

Schools have a duty of care to know about their pupils welfare, but draconian attendance policy undermines that. There is no point in being honest about holidays and that can be detrimental. In my final year of teaching, my A* GCSE student missed a week off "ill" skiing. Normally that wouldn't have mattered, he had the intelligence and work ethic to catch up easily, but he missed the fieldwork for his coursework 25% of the course. If there was a culture of dialogue and authorisation, he could have gone away a different week and minimised the consequences.

Inaccurate information about unauthorised sickness or sickness as an excuse for other absence is not helping schools to build an accurate picture about welfare.

I know it's the system not the schools, but in a world where parents go beserk about teachers having days off for INSET, they will blame the messenger/ school not OFSTED/ LA/ the government.