To think it's very unreasonable for school not to take my word DS is sick.

[VioletsArePurple]

DS has been home sick (sore throat, fever, headache) for three days. I have emailed them each day to inform them he is ill. No response from them on day 1 or day 2. He's going back tomorrow. Today (day 3) I got I an email from school with the following text: "...Just wanted to check in regarding how XXX is doing and also from an attendance perspective. Our school policy around holidays is to mark a child as unauthorised absence unless we have medical evidence for their illness. I wonder if you have been to the GP or hospital and if you have any evidence of this or a prescription bottle you could email us a photo of so I can change his attendance to illness once he comes back in."

AS it happens I was at the GP this afternoon for an appointment for me. And behind reception there was a sign stating:

SICK NOTES FOR SCHOOL ABSENCE
Your GP does not provide this information.
Please do not book an appointment.
A school should accept a note from the child's parent or guardian.
Speak to reception for further information.

Now, I should point out I actually love our school. But this email annoyed me. They have no idea how much I was looking forward to the first day of school. They can have DS all of next break to make up for it if they like.

“I do know that attendance was worse in the 70s , 80s and 90s. that is widely known in education circles” so where’s the evidence?

“It [bullying] does not account for the low absence or sporadic attendance of most students.” Where’s the evidence for THIS? Given many schools won’t even acknowledge they have a bullying issue I think it’s an incredibly arrogant claim to make.

“My attempt to 'have apop' at GPs was perhaps misinterpret. I guess I emnat people always point fingers at schools for everything but that we are stuck between a rock and a hard place.” More backtracking

“Schools, however, absolutely are 'properly' (and continuously) held to account for pupil outcomes” many parents (and former pupils) would beg to differ - and also would ask exactly what outcomes are considered important. Exam results and attendance are not the be all and end all of even school life. Schools should be instilling a love of education, the ability to think critically and debate (something you certainly seem to struggle with - it’s not ‘cherry picking’ it’s addressing the points of your argument I disagree with it’s how an argument is built)

And if you don’t want to come across as a “shoddy bureaucrat” then don’t argue like one.

There’s far too much bureaucracy involved in education now (and yes I’m aware there was a time there wasn’t enough but it’s gone too far the other way)

“Your inspectorate friend who disagrees with the rules will still be imposing or checking them!” Actually they very much consider it part of their job to feed information up to more senior people when and where a rule isn’t working, is hampering educators. She also advises schools and teachers where she feels they are treating a guideline as a hard and fast rule and lacking necessary flexibility.

“Apologies for missing the detail about your DD's consultant. I was talking in general terms : your school messed up and it is ridiculous. In general terms, most schools would (and , in fact absolutely should) accept a consultant's letter.” I thank you for the apology but feel I must say my case is far from unusual ime. I’ve a few friends & family with dc at different schools in different parts of the uk who’ve had very similar experiences. Too many schools/heads who think they know better than consultants!

“There may be a moral argument for monitoring attendance but what was asked for goes well beyond monitoring” I agree with that

“I would suggest there’s a massive problem with the inspection system if it effectively pitches schools -v- parents.” Absolutely

“I’m in Scotland where we have none of this nonsense about constantly monitoring attendance.” Generally speaking that’s true but I have to say I’m also in Scotland and my dds high school that refused to heed the consultant, me or gp was a Scots school. We’d had a good experience school wise up to that point. After the meeting with the head in 1st year after the initial problems we had a good experience there too until there was a new head came in end of 5th year. Despite her disability dd was a good involved student, regularly on the honour roll, received awards for achievement, considered responsible enough to mentor younger students, was a year ahead exam wise in a few subjects she had an aptitude for...

...then she got an infection, because of her disability she is

A more prone to certain infections
B they hit her harder than others
C she doesn’t respond as quickly to treatment

She ended up losing a significant amount of weight (she’s extremely slim and struggles to maintain a healthy weight anyway - again partly due to her condition), becoming dehydrated and was hospitalised to receive meds iv as she wasn’t responding well enough taking orally plus there were other complications. I was worried sick about her she was extremely ill. She was in hospital for over 2 weeks, when discharged we were told she was to rest up for AT LEAST another 2 weeks (again had a consultants letter backing this up) and gp was to assess her before she was to return to school.

It being an important exam year had not escaped us and we asked the school repeatedly for guidance on reading and even for some work to be sent home she could do. Occasionally we were promised this would happen and it never did.

By the beginning of the 2nd week of her being home I was getting hounded by the school regarding when she would be back even though I had kept them fully informed throughout.

As it happened school was due to break up for a holiday the week after the 2 weeks she was supposed to rest and they were only in a few days that week, the gp considered she was still too unwell to return to school and provided a letter accordingly - school basically went mad at me! Threatening all sorts. I stood my ground.

When dd returned to school after being so sick and the short holiday when she asked her various subject teachers for “catch up” work a few of them reacted very poorly. Sarcastic comments about her being “lazy” and “skiving” and that they were far too busy to go out of their way to do extra work to help a “lazy” pupil. They tried to be careful to say these things out of earshot of others - but didn’t always succeed. On one occasion a friend of MINE overheard (she was there to do a “careers day” presentation on her job). Dd was hurt at the accusations, became frustrated, disillusioned and disengaged - as I said previously an advanced well thought of student. I admit I didn’t handle things as well as I should have because the school had mostly been professional if officious with me. Dd started skipping the lessons with the teachers that had been arsy with her, that built to whole days and then full on school refusal. She was telling me her guidance teacher was also being arsy with her and I’m ashamed to say initially I didn’t fully believe her as I’d previously found this teacher to be polite and generally a bit more flexible. Then one day I called the guidance teacher again because dd had a full on panic attack/meltdown at the thought of going to school, she just couldn’t do it, this was the day after my friend had mentioned what she’d overheard and I think she panicked upon learning I had basically an independent witness to what dd had been subjected to.

The teacher COMPLETELY lost the plot! I hadn’t so much as raised my voice or threatened anything I’d merely asked for it all to be looked into as clearly dd wasn’t lying. She SCREAMED at me down the phone inc swearing and sectarian insults.

At that point dd having a winter birthday became lucky because she was already 16 and so couldn’t be forced to go to school and we decided together there was certainly no way she was going to THAT school again.

We discussed various options (another school, college, working) in the end dd opted to work and found a good job (thanks in part to having taken a couple of exams “early”. She’s now considering going back into education almost 3 years later, I don’t know if she actually will as she’s used to the good money she’s getting!

That school, those teachers took an engaged, interested, responsible, high achieving student with a supportive, engaged parent who values education and turned her right off education for several years because they were more concerned about how her poor attendance “made them look bad”.

And I very much doubt - in fact I know - this is not as rare as it’s made out!

“when the school's aim is to keep children safe from harm.” Actually I think a big problem is many of us parents no longer believe that to be the main priority. The main priority seems now to not be falling foul of oftsed or equivalents monitoring processes. The motivation behind chasing students/parents regarding non attendance is to protect their own jobs.

Good attendance doesn’t in and of itself prove either

That a child will achieve well

That there aren’t safeguarding concerns

I was very rarely off school, school was my escape from a chaotic, miserable, abusive home situation. I often went into school when really I should have stayed home.

“For starters, I think good attendance awards/treats should be outright banned.” Totally agree! Children who’s poor attendance is very likely due to parental issues - especially the case at primary level when these awards seem to currently be all the rage - have enough to contend with without being publicly shamed. They’re an absolutely disgusting idea.

Factitious disorder does exist but it’s incredibly rare and quite honestly based on my own and others experiences within the healthcare system (fortuitously coincides with another thread I’m on at the moment) I think it’s far far more likely to be the case of a genuinely ill person going undx for many years due to medical misogyny and complacency - as happened with dd actually. She had some clear symptoms of her condition at birth yet it took until the summer before her starting high school to

A - see a gp that took us seriously
B - get a dx and start on the path to us understanding the condition (very much a learning curve)

Schools need to stop the “following orders” bullshit and stand up for their pupils and for education to be just that - education - NOT a conduit for govt to monitor families behaviour.

honestly this obsession with attendance has gone too far, when i was in school back in the 90's, I distinctly remember kids trailing off towards the end off holidays because their parents would take them out a few days early for a holiday, nobody batted an eyelid.

At my children's school it was required.

Requesting a GP’s certificate for a common cold is ridiculous. I dread to visit my GP’s surgery during the winter months as it’s full of sneezing and coughing people anyway. 90% of those will be told that the best way to cure a viral infection is a bed rest. Dragging a child with a common cold, stomach bug or foot and mouth to the GP only results in more sick children.

GP's do not give sick notes out for school, simply ignore them. You noticed the school in accordance with their own sickness policy. If they persist then keep repeating 'Said' policy to them.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/schools-bother-us-for-sick-notes-they-don-t-really-need-say-gps-3q6zjk8d6

Absence rates in schools in ENgland and Wales have gone down since data was first collected at the national level in the early/mid 90s.

See annex G:
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/787314/Guide_to_absence_statistics_21032019.pdf#page55

Dragging a child with a common cold, stomach bug or foot and mouth to the GP only results in more sick children.

And adults! More sick everyone.

I may be remembering wrong, but I don't recall the Christmas period norovirus being so prominent when I was a child in the 80s and 90s. People do move around more now, so there's that, but there is also more pressure on schools because of attendance so I suspect more kids are being sent in whilst still a bit sick, for example. But maybe it was really common 30 years ago and we just never had it.

Thanks for the link boom.

As booms link shows, the gov. have moved the goalposts on the definitions of 'persistent absence' more than once, making the job of schools even tougher . This may explain the 'in my day' type comments. Student absence would not have been so manicallychased even 10 years ago if their absence was at , say , 12% as they have to be now.

I remember when the change was made form 15% to 10%. Various school leaders had kittens!

Unless there is attendance concerns (below 90% in our school) then this is ridiculous. Doctors have never done school absences notes for colds etc, I was very ill as a child and our GP only did one then as the school was bugging my mum so much for one it was stressing her out when she had more important things to worry about.

There is also the age old priblem of very little learnjng taking place in primary schools during the last week of term. If parents can save £500 by going on holiday then good luck to them.

The wasted week didn't hapoen in the independent sector and there was very little sickness absence. Parents valued what they paid for; teaching quality was high.

DD once missed two weeks of state primary. Nobody asked me for a note. She had a bad run in state secondary year 8 and I got a very stroppy letter noting the matter may be referred to ewo. She had a run of tonsillitis, tummy bug, ingrown toenail that required a week off because they refused to let her wear an open sandal in accordance with medical advice. And yes I was asked for proof re absences. I responded that no absence had extended to 8 days and there was no statutory requirement, it was a waste of NHS/GP time but I was sure they would, for a fee, issue a letter privately if the school wished to refund the cost. Meanwhile I would appreciate an apology for the inference that I was a liar.

That with the unmanaged, unruly behaviour was the final straw leading to transfer to the indy sector. If school teachers fail to deal with foul language, violence, theft and pyromania, they have no business questioning the honesty of decent people who care about their children that, frankly is where the rot in the system begins and ends.

Common sense needs to prevail again in schools if heads and teachers feel parents should respect their rules more.

The wasted week didn't hapoen in the independent sector

Locally, private schools end at least a week earlier every term (more in the summer) AND have a final week of e.g. Christmas shows, Summer concerts, picnics, sports days etc. So in fact their 'number of teaching and learning days per term' is quite a lot lower overall.

With terms ending earlier and starting later, ironically it is easier for those in private schools to get cheap holiday flights than it is for those who attend state schools, who will on average be less well off

If school teachers fail to deal with foul language, violence, theft and pyromania, they have no business questioning the honesty of decent people.

Do you think schools turn the children into foul-mouthed, violent, thieving pyromaniacs? Or do you think they don't try to stop it? What do you think a teacher has in their armoury to deal with such things? Trust me, detentions don't really cut it.

I agree that schools shouldn't just treat parents like liars, but I fail to see what that's got to do with the powerlessness of schools in the face of violent, volatile teenagers.

If school teachers fail to deal with foul language, violence, theft and pyromania

It’s those sorts of things that are causing teachers to leave the profession in their thousands.

Meanwhile, on another thread we are being told we have an easy life , really. On this one we are told we should be able to prevent arson.

You couldn't make it up.

I don’t think OhTheRoses was saying you should be able to magically prevent arson, just that schools should be focusing their resources and efforts there (and oh so many other places) rather than on trying to wring a GP’s letter out of parents for a common cold or similar.

lazylinguist no, I don't think schools turn young people into those things but I do think SLT's up and down the country make excuses for ot and don't do nearly enough to support the 90% who want to work and achieve in peace because, you know, that wouldn't be right on and inclusive enough. And I pity the teachers who report to them who complain about their hours and working conditions whilst the slt hide behind an opaque veil of excuses. And so the merry go round goes on and on and on.

One size doesn't fit all. Not all children will achoeve the EBacc. But let's not tell the truth. Let's not say that if a child comes from a family with three fathers who smoke dope it isn't in anyone's interest. Let's not say life choices matter. Let's not say that you can dig your way out by workng hard and living with caution and not doing drugs or getting pg before you are 20. Let's not say the gov't was wrong and we need schools for the clinically and socially disadvantaged back. Let's not say that equality is about adjustments, significant ones, for those who need help. Let's just agreeing everything should be done on the cheap for the majority.

When common sense prevails I'll be happier with the state and it's pandering heads who continually ask people like me to donate, donate, donate whilst failing the huge rump that makes up the majority.

It. Isn't. Good. Enough. Teachers need to start saying it on behalf of the 90%.

Its not it's. Two years at an elite (ha ha) state secondary as a parent ruined my views of teachers. Excuses and zero moral fibre.

It is because it was close to school holidays. Is there any other way you can prove you were not on holiday?

Apparently they had a good giggle at my stroppy email response. They changed the record to reflect he was ill. We kissed and made up. I suspect they will never again accuse me of not caring about my sons education.

DD 6 years old is sick today with almost 104F. Fever goes down with Calpol and she is drinking loads and eating ice-lollies.

I remembered this thread and how silly OP’s school was. The thought of dragging DD to a GP for a compulsive sick note makes me furious. Don’t get me wrong, I have taken my DCs to A&E in the middle of the night when the temperature hasn’t gone down with Calpol and to the GP if I have suspected throat infection etc, but why on earth would I drag a sick child who only needs rest and fluids to the GP?? IF I could even get an appointment .

You could take a pic of the thermometer. Bring it in for evidence! :-)