To think there are no emotional affairs.

[welliesarefuntowear]

That they are affairs. They have been unfaithful and betrayed you. I see the words emotional affair used so many times almost as though it's a reasonable explanation for the lies that have been told. I think it does the person who has been betrayed a disservice to even to try and distinguish the two. And I truly believe it's used to give cognitive dissonance to the fact that they will have had sex with that person.

You are coming back to the idea of the person actually lying/fancying the ‘friend’/gaslighting.
I’ve said it before, none of that is part of a friendship and I would not accept that and not would i expect DH to accept it either.

But this is NOT a friendship....
I’m talking about a proper friendship with no fancying the other, lying to get some interest from that other person etc.....

And btw, I wouldn’t take well on anyone starting gossiping like this. Regardless of whether it was just ‘friendship’ or not and regardless of the gender.

If I am to share that sort of details with friends, they are REAL friends (Male or female), not the type to go round gossiping.

I think you’ve misunderstood why people use the term emotional affair??
My take on it is that people (often men) will not see a relationship that isn’t physical as cheating so emotional afffair was coined to explain that cheating can often just be emotional, just because you haven’t slept together doesn’t make it any less damaging.
So I don’t think people use emotional affair to describe a harmless friendship but rather to describe a connection 2 people have that excludes their actual partner and leads to the person having their emotional needs met by this other person

I would say that they were different (emotional/physical) but both are upsetting and a betrayal. I suppose with physical it's easier to measure, they have cheated - full stop. Whereas with emotional it would say it depends how far they've taken it. Fancying someone and taking part in low-key flirting is very different to months of secrecy and talking about the other partner or talking about cheating.

But playing devils advocate, I think as humans you do meet people, sometimes of the opposite gender, that you have a connection with/attraction too that is simply inescapable, and your level of communication with that person is automatically 'deeper' than with the average acquaintance. Yet the boundaries still remain that there are some things about your partner/relationship that shouldn't be shared without permission, but that is more lack of respect than an affair to me.

(As is sharing things about partner/relationship would be a lack of respect)

I would mind a an emotional affair more than an actual one. It's more intimate. Sex can just be sex.

@Wildchristmas yes. I've always had male friends, some of whom I have fancied.

I think the content of messages differentiates a close friendship and an EA. E.g. If one person or both write a message saying if only they had met sooner/declare the other was their ideal partner and so on.

I agree an EA is more damaging than a once off shag.

Emotional affairs are unforgivable. DH had an emotional affair a couple of months after I mc'd at 13 weeks. He was sad, apparently, and the 22 year old NQT at his school flattered his ego. The lies - ('our school are insisting we password protect our phones in case a kid finds it' 'ok, what's your password?' 'What? Why don't you trust meeeeee?! The school are making me! Why are you so unreasonable?!). The constant talking about his 'new friend' to normalise her. The almost constant texting - because they are 'just good friends!' The gas lighting - 'I've never done anything to hurt you - why can't I have a friend? How dare you not trust meeeee!' The time he sent me and her the same messages whilst he was at an event - pictures of cool stuff he saw - one to the wife, one to the ow. The sexually explicit text messages. The 'working lunches' spent marking in his classroom together. The conversations about how they 'just don't understand why they can't keep away from each other' The agreement that they'd make a horrible couple, but 'still, I cant seem to stop talking to you.....oooh, what does this mean?????!'. The time he asked if I'd mind if they met up for a drink over half term and kicked off when I said I was starting to feel uncomfortable - 'you don't trust meeeee! I've never done anything!!!!'. Me knowing full well that if I hadn't have called him out on his bullshit and forced him to admit it, that would have been when he crossed the line and actually shagged her. Fucking horrific. With a physical affair it is all of the above plus sneaking around to have sex. They've actually gone and crossed that line. Im not sure if it is worse or not. An emotional affair is a horrendous betrayal. I kicked dh out, but, I was pregnant again and had a 4 year old dd who adored her daddy. I agreed to counciling - if I hadn't have been pregnant, it would have been over and no going back. But, counciling helped. It helped because I felt supported and empowered. We got through it and, in many ways, we are happy. Immediately after I would have said we were stronger, but, four years down the line I'm not sure that is still true. He made a lot of effort in the immediate time after, but he knew I'd kick him out so he was frightened. Complacency and good old fashioned male entitlement have crept back in to some degree. I'm stronger though. I suffer no bullshit. Our relationship will never fully recover. My heart is slightly harder. I will never again fully trust him and sometimes I wish we'd split. Sometimes I'm really glad we didn't.

I’d agree this is key
Yet the boundaries still remain that there are some things about your partner/relationship that shouldn't be shared without permission, but that is more lack of respect than an affair to me.

I think in many cases, betrayal isn’t a sudden thing, it starts with those little incidents of lack of respect. Most people, I hope, recognize it and then would know when they are going over the mark. They’d pull back.

There’s some really good articles that say that it isn’t just
Bad person = cheater

It is
Bad boundaries + deluding yourself about ‘friendships’ = cheater

Sorry username, sounds horrible.
The constant talking about his 'new friend' to normalise her. The almost constant texting - because they are 'just good friends!'

It’s the delusion that carries people into affairs. They willingly delude themselves before it happens that nothing is going to happen.

Yet it’s not about that is it? It is that your DP left you to your pain and chose to have his ego stroked instead. His selfishness led to his affair.

Having boundaries takes a certain amount of maturity and unselfishness. And a willingness to see that relationships are a serious but fragile business. You don’t just play around with other relationships that can damage it. You nurture the relationship instead. You back off old cosy opposite sex friendships and cool them off, you get them to a place where they are more respectful of the relationship.

@amaretto I don’t think you get it, which leads me to believe it hasn’t happened to you? I could be wrong. I have had female friends of my Ex be very cool with me, even without the gossiping, all of a sudden. Why? Because Ex told them he was lonely and true but intimate details of our relationship. It was humiliating to have another woman know this about my Ex and me, and it made them ‘side’ with Ex. Of course they would, anyone who tells someone else they are lonely are saying that the relationship is no good. They are rocking the boat. Not sure why you wouldn’t get this? It doesn’t matter if it is true. Your DH should be telling you he is lonely, not a female friend, don’t you agree?

OP, I had an EA while married.

They are all-consuming.

I have RTFT, and @IceClown speaks a lot of sense.

@DonaldTrumpsChopper, you perhaps inadvertently also make a very good point, namely that your DH has done all the things you mention, "with the exception of withdrawing from me".

Withdrawing from your partner is a major symptom of an EA. If there's no withdrawing, it's not an EA. It's perfectly normal to like (and fancy) people of the opposite sex. It's perfectly normal to have close friends of the opposite sex.

An EA is whole different ball-game (no pun intended).

The only thing I didn't talk to my EA about was my marriage (because, weirdly, it would have felt disloyal). He was, however, the first person I would text when I woke up (in a separate bedroom from my husband). He was the one I would ring to say goodnight. He was the one I would text throughout the day, for no reason at all. He is the one I told first when I had news about jobs/family etc. I used to walk the dog in the evening so I could ring him unheard. I switched the sound off my phone so my husband couldn't hear the volume of texts between us. I set up a second email account, just to communicate with EA.

I remember being in B&Q with my husband, when my EA rang to ask me to buy him something. My husband stropped off out of the shop. I went through the motions of asking him what was the matter, when I got back in the car, whilst knowing what he was pissed off about. He said I was more married to my EA than I was to him.

He was right. But EA and I never so much as held hands. Though I had endless sexual fantasies about him (my husband and I were not having sex, though I never told EA this). However, I was married and he was never going to be sexually involved with someone else's wife.

I have never loved anyone so much, though, apart from my children.

That's an EA. It is not a 'close friendship', or 'fancying a friend a bit'.

Have NC for this, obviously.

Expearte- I disagree that if your partner doesn't pull away from you it isnt an EA. My dh actually went the other way - became overly loving one minute and then actually cold and horrible the next. Blamed me for everything, but then would be sweet and nice. He said it was his guilty conscience. When he was being lovely he was pretending he wasn't crossing a line. When he was being an arse he was trying to justify why he 'needed' the attention of the ow and prove I was the horrible wife and he was the victim. He admitted all of this.

I think an emotional affair will lead to physical or at the minimum will lead to inappropriate flirting or some kind of sexual messaging otherwise it’s just a friendship. It’ll end up crossing the line in some kind of way and I think it’s harder to get over than a one night stand.

I think I was probably not clear enough, @Whatsername177, and your point is very sound. I think I was basing my comments only on the fact that I did withdraw from my husband - though in fact I think the EA only became such a thing because he and I had already withdrawn from one another. Perhaps the EA would never have happened, if our marriage had been solid.

@user1493413286 There was absolutely no flirting or sexual messaging between EA and me. It was more subtle than that.

Maybe taking a friendship 'undercover' is crossing the line, @user1493413286

It's just a crush.

Um... I don't think so @Singlenotsingle

If it’s happened to you then you’d know what an emotional affair is.

I disagree that if your partner doesn't pull away from you it isnt an EA
I agree, and anyway the partner never completely pulls away, otherwise they would leave and be decent.

My Ex was very affectionate, we had sex a lot, and then he would be cold for ‘no reason’ (texting other woman in EA). Or we’d be sorting stuff out, a problem in the relationship, and be on our way to a compromise and then suddenly after lunch with EA he’d do a U turn and not budge an inch (obviously talked to EA and they both decided I was unreasonable together).

So it was like a silent damaging hammer swinging in to smash our relationship every time Ex got his attention elsewhere, and not me, our problems ‘solved’ by him and EA, and not me, and weirdly, being really sexual with me as if he got off on all the attention.

It all destroys the main relationship.

Perhaps the EA would never have happened, if our marriage had been solid. no relationship is solid, that’s just a poor excuse for hurting your partner. Sorry but I feel for your husband. Must have been awful for him.

It stops being a crush when they acknowledge their feelings, actively seek each other out and lie about it.
My dh bought up that our relationship was in bad shape anyway during therapy. He was right. But he had failed to acknowledge that throughout our marriage he was hiding a porn addiction that made him feel like he was being short changed by our sex life and led to secret resentment of me. I resented him for the pressure that he put on me to be up for fucking like pornstars when I worked full time (bringing home the main wage as I was more senior than him, paying most of the bills etc),did most of the housework and had a young dd to look after. He correctly suggested I was massively sad and down following my mc though which led to the divide widening. I was probably depressed which was probably tough on him. I was diagnosed with PTSD after a horrific mc experience and was suffering flashbacks. I'd never been more desperately sad or vulnerable in my entire life He found my mood difficult and found solace in someone else, leaving me with no one. It might never have happened if our marriage had been in a better place is an absolute fact. But, he had to shoulder a huge portion of the responsibility for our marriage being in a bad place during therapy, which is one of the reasons I felt so empowered by it. He couldn't excuse his behaviour away.

Coming from a newly single -

an emotional affair is just as bad as being cheated on.. I've had both happen to me!

The lies and deceit of them falling for somebody else, telling them this and not you is the most gut wrenching experience and makes you feel the lowest of low.

Yet he doesn't see there's anything wrong because nothing happened.