H has turned into a monster after DC's birth

[sheepo]

Posting here for traffic as not sure if it's me and my hormones or whether or not my 'd' husband actually has turned into a monster after our second child's birth.

Husband has had a rough childhood and is very LC with his parents. I'm NC- they're a very toxic family. When our first child was born, I experienced PND and high levels of anxiety. Instead of support me, husband claimed to be suffering from depression himself (nothing wrong with that and I'm not disputing he didn't) but I felt my husband upped the ante so to speak by making things harder for me- leaving a very needy child all to me to sort out- feed, sleep, handing him over and at one point leaving him crying in a sleepyhead (on the floor by my bed) because he was struggling to soothe the baby and I was in deep sleep so didn't wake up straight away, starting arguments and then gaslighting me, etc. We've spoken at length about the first time and I thought we were determined to avoid the mistakes we made then and to change things this time so we were all a bit more settled and calmer. We started off okay but a week in and my husband is repeating some of the same behaviours as last time :( we're lucky we've got a baby who sleeps this time around and is generally low maintainance. I've also felt a lot more at peace with myself and am fighting hard not to slip into depression again. My biggest motivation is to provide as much consistency as I can for my toddler who is naturally struggling to adjust to the newest addition to our family and is acting up a bit. My husband has responded by starting loud arguments when he's felt overwhelmed, accusing me of nagging him or shouting at him or overwhelming him when I've asked him to do something- eg. Take the rubbish out, etc. I feel nothing I say/do is right. I'm fed up of arguing with him- we can go round and round in circles for hours. If I refuse to engage with him, he'll keep at me until he gets a reaction and I'm ashamed to say- out of frustration, I can give him as good as I can get. I'm shattered as it is and feeling guilty I can't be as hands-on with my toddler as I've been up until now and my husband is adding to my stress levels. I've got a HV coming over in the morning to check up on me. Would IBU if I mentioned my husband was being a shit? Or would I be opening a can of worms and risking our family being reported to SS? Help.

@sheepo

He sounds a pain in the ass. I would not put up with that at all. My own husband was a star when both my children were born and would share the night feeds and change and bath the babies. He was a perfect father, however since the children have grown up and he is now a Grandfather I don't trust him as much with our Grandchild and I am always making sure he is doing thing correctly because he is much older now.

This is about him not being front and centre any more due to the babies. He can't stand that. My 14yo does the 'starting loud arguments' and 'hard done by' thing and gets very, very short shrift. I won't tolerate it in a teen. In a grown man and father it's just beyond unacceptable.

As soon as felt secure, the mask fell off and he revealed his true self. This won't end well, save yourself the hassle and start creating an exit strategy now. Abusers don't change

Are we married to the same man? DH did this after I have a very traumatic birth, nearly lost DD (who was in special care leaving me to move in to the baby unit at the hospital post c section), struggling to bf and with a 'high need' non sleeping baby. As I fell into PND and PNA with the gravity of what I was expecting and nearly losing my baby, DH simply ignored me and talked of his own depression. When I was diagnosed he was almost ecstatic and told everyone of my poor MH. He was utterly selfish and when my MH worker suggested I start by simply taking an hour to myself (because he was worried I would get worse otherwise), DHs only response was to ask where his hour of me time was. Eh mate it's all those nights and early mornings you refuse to do, as well as the hours out hiding in the garage on your phone for 'car maintenance'. I had to get myself back on track so in the end faced it head on. I challenged everything (no more special privileges to avoid his moods, no more allowing him to slag me off or brag about my poor MH. I allowed us to argue for several nights whilst I offloaded), i told people what was happening and stopped allowing DH to control the narrative by posting about that whole 10mins he has spent with DD on social media. Tell people- your HV but also IRL. Have you got friends and family you can speak to? I had my own individual counselling and ADs and told DH to go to his own doctor because his MH was his issue not mine to micro manage and live around nor is it a get out of parenting. Now is the time to start building your own life. Make plans to return to work as early as you feel comfortable and do not rely on DH for anything. Find your own support network. I made it clear to DH he was not needed and I wouldn't hesitate to end the marriage if things didnt change. We went to couples counselling to formalize what had happened (no more gaslighting) and move forward. DH wants another baby and this is my biggest fear - that it'll happen again but if it does I'll be prepared and he'll be gone. The lundy Bancroft book is amazing. You're strong and you've got this. If you can leave and go somewhere you can be nurtured and built up like you're mums then dont hesitate to take some time for you and your children.

Thanks ladies, I come from a far from ideal background myself so can recognise bullshit a mile off. I knew I wasn't imaging husband being a shit but he's called the bullying, nagging, me being abusive card so many times that I thought maybe I was a tiny bit. Someone mentioned him having the victim mentality thing going on- absolutely spot on. It's embarrassing how little self awareness he has. His family is the same- the world is the problem, they're perfect and hard done by. The thing is, they're abusive towards him too and have ostracised him but he keeps going back because he thinks he's doing the right thing. He's a very, very cynical person and it's become worse since our first child was born- before that, I had the energy to challenge him or make up for his shortcomings through my own personality. I was/am a very social and outgoing person. Since getting married though, I've lost all my friends- some because they were fair weather friends and others because they didn't get on with my husband. I thought I was being loyal by sticking by my husband but maybe they saw something I refused to or couldn't see. He's not always bad and genuinely has nice bits and can be very selfless too- he'll make dinner, take us out, buy us things (if asked), clean (if asked/nagged)- he feels this is his love. Everything else falls by the wayside. I've made very clear his behaviours/attitudes that are out of order/annoying and he'll apologise but then not change. I feel like I've become a completely different person but my husband refuses to adopt the growth mindset approach.

Can I ask why you both agreed to have a second child when the first put such a strain on your marriage?

he felt like he'd be better off walking out on me but it was the thought of leaving DC1 behind that stopped him from doing that.

This screams ABUSER.
He is telling him that you had better watch it and not get uppity, because he is this close to punishing you for your cruelty to him (i.e having a baby and devoting time and energy to the baby).

Tell the HV. Don't let her talk you into false optimism. Your H is a nasty piece of work.

Call Women's Aid 0808 2000 247. They are there for women suffering all sorts of abuse, not just physical.

Your H is not going to improve. He will always be turning the screws on you. You will always feel some pressure, some judgement, always get the feeling that somehow you are a failure. There will be maddening arguments, accusations that are completely irrational that will do your head in, with the occasional glimpse of his nice guy performance, which will be done to keep you imprisoned by your own toxic optimism.
He will destroy you in the end and he will take the children down with you.

Make plans to end this relationship. Sorry to be blunt.

I know he's not been like this from the beginning of our relationship. He changed once DC1 was born 15 months ago :'(
I think you should start to reclassify the initial phase of the relationship as the time when he set a trap for you (lovebombing), and stop thinking of it as a golden time you can return to if only you change into what he wants and succeed in making him happy.

I urge you to download an app called mush and start networking with local mums. DH dislikes social gatherings but mostly mums want to meet during the day when their partners are working. Start building your social network back up. This really helped me see that a lot of women were going through this (one of best friends DHs seemed so hands on and supportive I was really jealous but shouted at her and called her horrible names the other day) and having difficulties. It also helps having people to talk to. Factually labelling the behaviour you're experiencing helps dispel the gas lighting.

@blackcat86 - I'm sorry you went through that. so much of what you've wrote resonates with me. When I finally acknowledged I might have PnD, husband went into a long monologue of him knowing what I meant because he was feeling all the symptoms I'd mentioned. When I said I needed his help and support to feel better/manage, he went off on another tirade about how PnD in fathers was ignored and how unfair it was. I eventually gave up and had a shit time managing my very difficult baby until about the time he was 8 months old- I emerged stronger by my god, there were times I wanted to jump off the balcony or walk into oncoming traffic because I couldn't cope with a baby that cried all the time and a husband who made it all about himself. In terms of taking back charge of the narrative, I did that very early on but its meant silent treatment, gaslighting (its always my fault) or an empty apology.

I've always recognised his shitty behaviours but had the energy to challenge these pre-children. Post children, I haven't got the strength to tackle the same bastard issues. I always think if it was anyone else, they'd be embarrassed if someone kept telling the same thing over and over again. Not my husband.

As for sharing with others IRL, they'd never believe me. We look like the perfect family/couple :/ the handful of people we know are my friends and because they know me (vocal, confident, assertive) and my husband puts on the perfect martyr/hard done by act, they'd always think I was to blame for the way my husband has become.

There will be maddening arguments, accusations that are completely irrational that will do your head in, with the occasional glimpse of his nice guy performance, which will be done to keep you imprisoned by your own toxic optimism.

Fucking hell- this is happening now.

He will destroy you in the end and he will take the children down with you.

Ill kill him before I let this happen.

Maybe you need couples counselling too. Maybe he finds it hard when change happens.
But you did say his family are hard work. What's in the meat comes out in the gravy as my mum used to say.
His childhood has obviously had an affect on his behaviour. X

We've been for couples counselling in the past and it was a huge let down. My husband convinced the (male) counsellor there were no issues but that it was my anxiety and perfectionist streak that was causing the issues. The next couple of sessions were then taken over by the counsellor focussing on these and encouraging me to take a relaxed approach to life. It was almost as though they were colluding with one another. Any rebuttal from me was then used as an 'I told you my wife is hard work Mr Counsellor'. I would love to try coupes counselling again but we can't afford it on 1 salary.

He's unsupportive, unkind, not a good husband to you. Small instances of nice behaviour do not even begin to compensate for it. He is abusive and you should consider leaving him

This reads identically to how my exDP was - he was always difficult to some extent when we weren't parents, but he lovebombed me, made me feel safe, and when my DS was born he finally let his guard down when I needed him the most (PND/PNA). He was fantastically engaged with all the professionals I had in my life 'oh he's such a hands on dad' but when the doors closed, it was a different matter.

I remember the only person who saw through it was my mental health nurse who said he was patronising and made everything about him, which he did. Psychiatrists were telling him in order for me to sleep and recover from PND I needed him to pick up a night feed - this was never, ever done. And the times I asked, he would argue and shout and scream at me, in front of our baby.

I'm not perfect. I have severe mental health problems and can be relentless when feel overwhelmed. But my exes treatment of me is probably about 50% of the reason I am as ill as I am at the moment.

I urge you to leave. His world revolves around him and now that you are unable to give him the time you once did, he feels resentful, ignored and mugged off. Those were the very same worlds my ex said to me when my DS was a year old.

@lisag1969 - he definitely finds change difficult but even when I've tried my best to prepare him for new situations, he'll react really badly. I'm at a loss what else to do differently.

Since his recent counselling, he's come home feeling a lot better in himself. He revealed a little bit about what his counsellor has said (sounds like she's challenged him and provided a bit of balance to what he's told her) but I'd love to attend one session with him just so that I can share my perspective on him and his behaviours. I even thought of writing a letter to her and asking him to give it to her.

@sheepo

Don't do couples counselling with someone like this. Like you mentioned in your example, your DH spun everything around to be him and his feelings. My ExDP did exactly the same thing. Counselling requires honesty and these men are incapable of admitting for any length of time how terribly they treat women and others. All the sessions we had were pointless as my ex portrayed this wonderfully kind, patient person who was just a little stressed at work. The reality of the situation was he screamed at me, swore at me, called me disgusting names and made our home life uncomfortable, but when I tried to bring that up in counselling because of the persona my ex had carefully created, none of it sounded real

@ukgift2016 because things eventually got better and DC1 because a lot less maddening! He's a beautiful child and we both love him to bits. Also because 'we' thought things would be different second time around... and they are. A much more settled child (only 2 weeks in but fingers crossed it continues) and a much more relaxed mum (so far) but husband is being a PITA hence this thread...

... DC1 became a lot less maddening (and unsettled)

I would love to try coupes counselling again but we can't afford it on 1 salary.
NOOOOO!
DO NOT go to couples counselling again with this man. Your previous experience will be repeated x 10. You will emerge feeling you have been hit by a train, again.

As for sharing with others IRL, they'd never believe me. We look like the perfect family/couple :/ the handful of people we know are my friends and because they know me (vocal, confident, assertive) and my husband puts on the perfect martyr/hard done by act, they'd always think I was to blame for the way my husband has become.
You must start telling your friends the truth. It will be painful for you to 'admit' that in your own home your vocal, confident, assertive personality is up against a force it cannot cope with (and please don't kid yourself that your arguments and challenges to his verbal aggression are effective ways of coping, or will ever succeed in getting him to change - you are dealing with a malignant narcissist who will never change).

You need to tell your friends that he has you on your knees and that you could do with their quiet support as you try to determine your best course for the future.

Go to counseling yourself, for you. Call Women's Aid, 0808 2000 247. Leave a message. They will call you back. Tell them everything. Ask for help - for counseling especially. But also for support as you explore your options.

@blackcat86 - I wish I had a mum to go to. She died when I was 12. My siblings and I really suffered at the hands of my dad after she died and as you can imagine, have had our own issues to deal with as a result. My siblings are takers and can't see beyond their own noses. I thought I'd done well in life and had chosen a good partner. Seems like I've ended up with more of the same. That thought really upsets me.

Even to save your marriage a separation whilst he sorts himself out might be best. He should have done this work before children, but he could probably "cope" then. Having children often does bring bad patterns from childhood into sharp focus.

You are not his emotional punch bag - and either of your DC seeing you used as one is hugely damaging. Not only teaching them really bad lessons about relationships but also making them insecure. They may be treated totally lovingly by Dad - but if they see how he can turn on Mum, then that teaches that if they don't do the right thing it could happen to them too.
Couples counselling is not recommended when one partner is abusive - for the very reasons you experienced.
He has not dealt with his childhood. And his charm was probably learnt as a defense mechanism then.

Also because 'we' thought things would be different second time around

You got lucky with DC2, so far.

But this is an example of toxic optimism, isn't it? So is the hope that a letter to H's counselor would (1) be delivered, or (2) make any difference to H even if the counselor addressed its contents.

Go to your own counseling. Learn to disengage from the dynamic he has created here, where you try to do the emotional work he should be doing and get rewarded by the threat that he would abandon you right before you gave birth if it wasn't for DC1.

Life lesson here - when you find yourself explaining civilised behaviour or outlining the normal reactions and responses you expect from him, you need to re-evaluate the entire script you are following.

Seems like I've ended up with more of the same. That thought really upsets me.

This is very, very difficult for you, and I can see from your comments about your friends and how surprised/disbelieving they would be that you are truly becoming a prisoner here.

Don't let your pride get in the way of a life free from cruelty and disrespect.

@Math- pride and shame- I never thought I'd be at the receiving end of any kind of abuse anymore. I thought I'd left that all behind.

It will get better

Our marriage was like this after the birth of our second child. It was a terrible, awful year.

We are back to normal now and glad we stayed together.