To ask for advice about find a career which allows me to look at myself in the mirror

[thepeopleversuswork]

Prompted in part by the thread earlier from someone saying she feels ashamed about being a cleaner (she absolutely shouldn't).

I have an almost opposite problem: I'm ashamed of what I do for totally different reasons, I feel that my soul is utterly corroded by what I do. Its a white collar job (not going to say what as its too outing) very well paid (not boasting just setting out facts) and has fairly high status but has no ethical or society-focused underpinnings whatsoever.

I justify what I do on the grounds that I am a single mother without any childcare or financial support and have huge outgoings to pay my mortgage and the childcare which allows me to work. I escaped from an abusive marriage and I really needed to make a lot of money in a hurry.

I still need to make what by most people's standards is a fairly high salary in order to survive where I live and support my ability to work but I increasingly feel that I can't live with myself, that I'm running myself into the ground in order to enrich people who don't need any more money and to support people who at best are morally neutral capitalists, often far worse.

I look around at what is happening in the world (huge and widening gap between rich and poor, climate crisis, western democracies having been taken over by right wing thugs, discrimination against women and minorities still blighting society) and I keep hearing this voice in my head saying "evil triumphs when good people do nothing". ie, I can no longer justify what I do on the grounds that I need to support my child.

So having got that hair shirt rant out of the way, my question is, has anyone else successfully moved out of a highly paid but morally repugnant career into one where they were able to contribute positively to society without bankrupting themself. This question is aimed primarily at single parents or breadwinners purely on the basis that I don't have anyone else to lean on financially, so reducing hours or relying on someone else isn't an option. If I remain living where I live (and you can probably guess where I live), I would need a high salary and I'd prefer not to move as my child is about to go to secondary school. So while I'm prepared to take a certain pay cut, something like teaching or charity work as a sole career would be out for me at the moment. Volunteering is also not very easy for me as I don't have any childcare other than that which I need to pay for to work.

Has anyone successfully done this without financial support or uprooting their entire family? How did they do it?

I assume you are a lawyer or banker? Something along those lines?

If not can you at least tell us what your transferable skills/qualifications are?

I switched companies within my industry (one of the above) and found it massively more rewarding. Turns out I had a company problem not an industry problem (though there are still systemic industry problems but now my company is trying to fix them rather than profit by them).

Also remember - you are not responsible for the whole world. Systems are bigger than any one person. Do what you can but societal inequality is not going to be solved by you quitting your job and working for a charity if you then can't support your family!

Also if every professional with a conscience leaves their industries then the only ones left will be the bad ones. I am trying to change things with the support of my company, particularly around sustainability, carbon emissions and diverse hiring.

Yes, for very similar reasons to you

I became a cleaner! Been running my own small cleaning biz for over a year now.

I feel morally at ease, my clients are lovely, appreciative and highly value my work (eg. a text I received from a client yesterday read "you are my most favourite person in the world!"). And despite being a lowly cleaner I'm on decent money. Not as much as I earned in my previous demanding stressful 'all-the-hours-under-the-sun' job, but not nearly as little as some people would think.

I also now only work while DCs are at school, with some minimal admin work, which is done at home.

My family were agog when I said I was ditching my employed professional job to become a self-employed 'scrubber'. But I have absolutely zero regrets. Wish I'd done it sooner.

Is there a sideways step you could make still using your profession? I'm thinking something like moving to an ethical investment firm if you're in that type of work, becoming a lawyer for a charity or advocacy group if it's law...you might well still take a cut but not so severe?

Do you actually understand what you do? There are very few truly morally repugnant white collar jobs, even fewer well paid ones. Unless you are involved in some kind of fraud or commercially predatory business it’s likely that you are actually contributing a great deal to society. If you are involved in the latter then move to a firm/institution/company with better corporate governance. The most effective tool for alleviating poverty and solving humanities problems to date has been capitalism, there’s a reason for that.

Is your job really that morally questionable? I find it hard to think of a job that is legal in the UK that is as bad as you say. I am guessing you are something like a fund manager for a v v wealthy individual. But a job like that has its role in the economy, providing investment for companies which creates jobs etc. Working for a tobacco company and marketing cigarettes in poorer countries is the only really bad thing I can think of.

Maybe you can think of other ways to make the world a better place, perhaps using your skills to volunteer for a good cause, or investing your money in ethical and environmentally beneficial companies?

Depends how much you need and what your skills are. Working for a charity doesn’t necessarily mean peanuts. It could be a social enterprise/ non profit or just a big charity where legal/ finance director would still make around low 6 figures. Likewise those skills would be in demand in many parts of the public sector (like nhs hospitals).

Xiaoxiong something along those lines, yes.

I do have transferable skills (I've changed career once already) and in theory could transfer them fairly easily. The challenge is that anything in my career with any ethical underpinning to it is through an NGO or charity and the pay differential between that and the private sector is vast. There's also a big cultural difference as well I think and the charity sector is understandably suspicious of hiring people like me who have worked in the red-in-tooth-and-claw end of the market. It's not impossible but it would require a drop in pay which would be challenging to put it mildly. I think probably the way to do it would be to have a strategy to move slowly over time by picking up bits of volunteering work etc.

I felt the same way when I worked in music. It’s not even that bad as industries go, but I just felt like I was only helping rich people get richer and I felt utterly unfulfilled. I now own a yoga studio. We do lots of community projects and free stuff for people that can’t afford classes, and people regularly tell me that what we do has changed their life, or at least their day, for the better. I am not changing the world at all and what I do isn’t worthy, but I feel personally better and way more fulfilled by what I do. Also a single mum and my career change has enabled me to be there more for my son. I have never regretted changing my life.

BonnyConnie I have no problem with capitalism and I agree that (with limitations and scrutiny) its the best way to alleviate poverty. I'm not involved in anything really shady like tax avoidance or anything. It's hard to be too specific as I really don't want to out myself.

It's more the feeling that what I do essentially props up people who are trying to avoid their moral responsibilities. It sticks in the craw at some really fundamental level. Also I feel I could justify the vast amounts of work and the time spent away from my child if I were enriching society at some level, as opposed to just supporting people to continue to enrich themselves. It just feels like a huge waste.

Don't get me wrong I'm extremely grateful that I don't have significant financial worries -- I realise that's a valuable commodity for a single mother. But it just feels like my energy is being channelled in the wrong direction.

So - you work in a corporate environment and presumably have some good connections to people/organisations with money...

Have you thought about going on to the board of a small charity, and helping them to secure some philanthropic donations through your networks? I run a small charity and people with your skill set and connections into the corporate world would be really useful on our board.
Time commitment wouldn't be huge, but you could have real impact.

We live in a capitalist society. By generating profits and paying tax on them (unless tax dodging is involved) you’re funding all the stuff that presumably you find more worthwhile, like healthcare, social care, education and so on.

Wealth generating private enterprise is hugely important.

I'm here to offer you the flip side. I'm well educated & fairly intelligent but have worked in 'worthy' roles for the past 9 years.
Whilst it's been fulfilling & enjoyable financially there are sacrifices & I'm not currently sure I made the right move. Especially with all the cuts to services during this time & associated pay freeze.
So, I suppose I'm saying it's swings & roundabouts really OP.

I work in a bank, but on the Compliance side looking after conuuct, I feel better doing this as I see it as keeping it in line with regs which are there to protect the consumer and the economy as well as the company.

Babamamananarama that's really interesting and I'd love to do something like this. How would I go about doing it?

How much do you ‘need’ to earn in the new career?

LaurieMarlow I hear you and to reiterate I don't have any problem whatsoever with private enterprise or capitalism. If anything its that so much of my time is taken up with this it leaves no space to do anything that I consider more socially valuable. But I'm not against capitalism.

Realistically if you step away from your current role to pursue a role that will help you feel morally at ease, you will need to take a pay cut.

As an alternative I would suggest volunteering by joining the board of a charity - you could help with strategy, finance, corporate governance etc etc.

Or something that is very rarely discussed - volunteer to become a magistrate.

Both of these roles are challenging & enriching in different ways but should help to fulfill your need towards contributing to society.

In the long term if you pick up voluntary roles like this they could be stepping stones to the career/role change that you haven't quite figured out yet.

I’m probably in a similar position. Single parent. Well paid job in the investment industry. I don’t have any moral qualms about it beyond noting that my job is to make rich people richer and that is not my dream. However in my case we also employ a lot of people and pay a lot of tax on our profit which feels good. We have a diverse workforce and some of the team have worked for us for 15+ years and several came in with no qualifications and now are senior managers. All those things contribute to a good and stable society. Plus the culture of my firm is that we focus on doing the job well and with integrity and that helps.

I’d be very careful about leaving for the charitable sector. The sector is imho troubled at the moment. Look at the horrors in the NSPCC and Oxfam. Amnesty is also pretty revolting ATM. Yes bad behaviour can happen anywhere and Lord knows it has happened in banking. But the attitude towards things that have happened really stinks. Personally I would struggle to find that environment palatable. Perhaps especially at the moment. I think the charitable sector needs to shrink back down and regain a focus on its core objectives.

I am also the trustee of a smaller charity and that has also been extremely challenging. Won’t say too much on that as it might be outing but it’s partly this experience that is encouraging me to count my blessings where I am.

FramingDevice I don't want to put a figure on it but let's just say I have a reasonably sized mortgage plus London living costs plus childcare just to survive. So several grand a month before I get to disposable income. Not going to pretend to be hard up now and I could cut some cloth but not to the level which a charity sector or NGO job would pay.

I could have written the OP. I was in that position for many years. I read a brilliant book called Effective Altruism which says that it doesn’t really matter what you do - whether you are a doctor in the third world or you sack people for a living - if you weren’t doing that then someone else would. Instead you should look at how you spend the money you earn and the time you have available you use those to make the world a better place. I used my skills and time to set up a Charity which has a huge impact locally, that more than counter balanced the work I was paid to do. I also saved hard so I can afford to change sectors this year because that’s where my heart really lies.

Binterested I totally hear you. And btw based on anecdote I don't think I'd like the charity sector much anyway: I think I'd struggle with the culture there - I worked in the public sector for a short period a few years back and found it unbearably plodding and slow. Also interesting to hear you are a charity trustee. Would love to hear how you went about that -- I'd love to get involved with something like that.

Do you need the large mortgage?
Do you need to live in London?

Could you move to somewhere affordable and use your skills to help a charity? (I’m guessing legal)

Currently there are big businesses that are investing in huge green projects eg Andrew Forrest. Could you channel your skill set to something like that?

https://www.ted.com/talks/andrewforresttaradicallplantooendplasticcwaste/up-next?language=en

Philanthropy and giving your DC the best life is the way forward. Assuming that you are not hurting anyone, stealing anything then you need to stop with the self pity.