How would you deal with this behaviour - have I been too harsh?

[theduchessstill]

DSs (12 & 10) went completely loopy at bedtime after quite a nice, calm evening of homework, dinner, some tv and music. They were shouting, making silly noises deliberately to annoy me, getting out of bed, the lot. Fuck know why. They go up at 9pm and are allowed to read for 20-30 minutes. Have tried a separate bedtime but it never works out.

I lost it with them after about half an hour and taken all lights from the room, including the main bulb and said no phones at all tomorrow, or Xbox (allowed one hour each on week night). I have also said bed early tomorrow. Unfortunately they are home without me quite a bit - about an hour in the morning and up to 2 hours after school, though tomorrow I can get back just after them.

I'm at a bit of a loss really and so fucking angry. I don't really want to hide the phones since they are alone but there is a house phone and ds2 doesn't take his to school anyway. They could have separate bedrooms but choose to share and it's not easy to change back.

AIBU? I'd love to know why they get such a kick out of winding me up...

I think now you've said it, you have to stick to it. You only have to hold your nerve through tomorrow.
I'd put the lights back in before you go to work in the morning though.

Bet they like the reaction / attention they get from you by winding you up.
It does seem like they're on their own a lot by today's standards, but was probably normal when we were kids.
Needs must and all that.
Might be worth looking into alternatives, clubs etc, so they are supervised / can burn off energy.

Unfortunately they are home without me quite a bit - about an hour in the morning and up to 2 hours after school,

They need you. They are playing up for attention. They need more from you.

Are you ok yourself OP, do you feel stressed or PMS-ed or what? This sounds like a bit of an over-reaction to me.Maybe you had a long, stressful day and they just pushed you over the edge. We've all been there. The light bulb was a genius move btw, if I could get up a ladder I'd try it sometime. I'm just wondering if you going off at them and then coming on here and wondering, essentially, if you over-reacted. I think you might have. They are only young for a bit... but I am not judging you for it, when mine don't help me clean on a weekend I go nuts.

I don’t think it is too harsh as a “Start as you mean to go on beginning of term rant.”

I actually think that is quite late for a school night. I would make it half eight as they maybe over tired.

I am another one to be concerned that they are too young to be on their own for 3 hrs a day.

It is ok but you must follow through this time. Then explain in a calm manner that it is not ok to deliberately wind you up.

Don't take the lights, they are looking for attention.
DC often get giddy at bedtime, We often thought it was very funny when DM was red in the face.
Maybe a chat tomorrow with a warning, I wouldn't punish them yet.
Is today the first day back to school, if so it is probably pent up energy.
Have a good nights sleep.

So do they have to get themselves off to school in a morning?

They sound like great independent boy's. They wound you up and you took the bait. not judging you need the calmness of a sloth to put up with DC
Everyone make up tomorrow or put yourself on the naughty stool too.

OP I feel your pain. You've had some great advice here - I agree with perhaps no more room sharing and see how they do.

Your 'taking the lights' did make me laugh. And reminded me of a colleague (back in the day) who would carry an enormous bag to and from work. One day I asked her what the hell she had in there, and she showed me. The headsets from 3 land line phones - the big old black ones with the long curled wires; 3 tv remotes and the garage door openers. All big bulky models.

Needless to say, she had a teenager at home.

At 10 and 12 an efficient way to punish them would be to change the
WiFi password, although I'm literally howling with laughter at you taking the bulbs! 😂🤣😂

@zoobincan "They need you. They are playing up for attention. They need more from you."

I think you'll find they need her to work, to provide a roof over their heads and food in their stomachs more than anything... FFS!

It does seem that on youngish shoulders you want your 12 year old to be a big boy/young man in charge of the house for 3 hours a day and then a good little boy in bed by 9
You want your 10 year old to be reliant on a 12 year old who has little authority but then respect your authority when you can be around
I'd suggest that it's quite nervy to be home alone at thise ages nervous makes you twitchy twitchy makes you behave as they are
I'd also say if they are nervous taking lights and splitting them up breaks down their bond of I've got your back and makes them more twitchy.
As a PP said you need to find the balance of respecting what they achieve together alone and tgem respecting your leadership role

@Retroflex

I think you'll find they need her to work, to provide a roof over their heads and food in their stomachs more than anything... FFS!

Why so aggressive?

Fair enough if you don't agree that these kids are acting up for attention; but no need to launch at me as if I suggested cutting your head off!

For everyone who is concerned (shaming?) the OP because she has to work, and the boys are left alone for a period during the day, legally she is doing absolutely nothing wrong... I'm sure the children know who to contact in an emergency, and I'm pretty sure that if they were too immature to be left alone, then their parent wouldn't do that. Why is their so much judgement on mn?

@zoobincan honestly I found your needless guilt trip/shaming of the op abhorrent! How the hell do you know what these children need?

honestly I found your needless guilt trip/shaming of the op abhorrent! How the hell do you know what these children need?

Eh? I wasn't shaming anyone. Calm down!

I literally said they are playing up for attention. They need more from OP. And yes that did refer to the fact they are left alone for and hour in the morning and 2 after school.

It absolutely was not meant to be a guilt trip, it was a possible reason for the behaviour. It's actually very common so I'm not sure why you thing I'm abhorrent

Why is their so much judgement on mn?

I must admit, this did give me a bit of a giggle.

Given you have called me abhorrent for daring to suggest a link between kids being alone and kids behaviour - indeed, why is there so much judgement

as an aside,perhaps not when your telling them off for this as they wll link it.start giving them some growing up responsibility too.not for 'chores' sake but more for time to grow up, give them a bit of adulting time.this isnt punishment but they start to get a sense of thesmelves with responsibility.. so do they do dishwasher.can they cook te one evening a week.or choose a recipe.go get ingredients etc. start bigging them up by helping mum out or working as a team.
on this i think they will be fueling eacohter which is half the problem.so is there a way to seperate them before the troubl starts.so when they are going up could you call one fo them back to 'ask' them something.
stay calm(not emotionless ir cold as this is jsut as bad for young kids.) but just fluid.follow through and calmly keep telling them what will be happening.follow them around repeating what you need them to do.
you right,they are older so how are you comunicating with them at the moment.do you speak to them like they are being annoying fucking todlers or are you talking to them like young men.

and im not shaming you on your being out.you have to do this so good on you for doing what you have to do for them.
but maybe let them know this.let them know you dont like leaving them and your really grateful how they stay safe and be all grown yp so you can work to keep things ok for you at home.
be a team.make sure when you come home your not fustrated or knackered with them.be pleased to see them.and that your glad to be back with them.easier sai than done but it cn mke difference.

Honestly that sounds like a massive over reaction for half an hour of high jinks causing no damage.
Has this been their first day back at school? A change in routine can be unsettling, a change to sleep routine hard or maybe they have enjoyed each other’s company over the holiday & missed each other today.

Whilst I’m sure it felt like it was being done to/at you it’s far more likely they were just having fun. Removing a lightbulb in particular seems an unusually strong reaction.

Hope tomorrow is a better day

Separate rooms would likely be an improvement. They wouldn't be able to egg one another on.

zoobincan What you wrote made me feel like shit actually. Yes, there might be a link between their behaviour and our arrangements and I need to look at that and at least give them more credit for it, as others have suggested. But you wrote that they need more from me, which strongly implies I don't do enough for them and don't care. There is fuck all I can do about having to leave them. Their father contributes nothing whatsoever so we are dependent entirely on my income. Luckily, it's not a bad one, but as a teacher I only have a certain degree of flexibility - can't risk being late for example or ask for later starts - and as a Head of Department, I need to be around a certain amount for my team. But thanks for suggesting I don't do enough for them. That's really helped. They love the set up, by the way, though I know that doesn't mean it's a good thing necessarily.

Just having to start lesson planning at 9.15 with them screaming and pounding around is a nightmare.

Anyway, it's only 2 days it's that long as Wednesday they both go to a club and Thursday they go to Dad's (he's always home - doesn't work) and Fridays are alternated between me and dad and I always go straight home on my week.

I'm going to keep their phones today and talk to them when I get home. I left the landing light on when I went to bed and will obviously put the lights back in their room tonight. Not sure about separating them as I moved them together to stop the going in and out of rooms, which I couldn't really stop and led to conflict. Don't want to go to the huge effort of moving a bed just for them to piss around anyway.

I don't think it's too much to expect sensible behaviour at bedtime when she leaves her children during the day.

I'd say if they are able to be alone (and many kids that age are) they they are able to go to bed and read/talk quietly for 30 monkeys before lights out.

9/9.30 is not early for kids that age.

Another who thinks removing the light bulbs is genius

They clearly were playing up massively for the reaction they got. 10/12 yo are more than bake not to be up and down and turning lights on and off and going up and down stairs.

And those of you judging them being at home - please open your eyes to others circumstances. Plenty of parents have to work and plenty of children are home alone for periods of time.

I certainly was and I still managed to behave myself at bedtime!

You’ve had a long day and lost your sh*t at bedtime. We have all been there... I know I have!

It sounds like your doing your absolute best for these boys. I really don’t think one night of misbehaving signals ‘your not giving them enough’ or ‘they need more from you’! I’m always how such bold assumptions can be made from a 250 word paragraph.

How brilliant that these boys can be trusted to be independent, and it sounds like they’ve got a great bond.

Chin up, it was a bad night but I’m sure your strong message of zero tolerance will make for a better night tonight!

I’m going to make sure the step is upstairs ready to remove the light bulbs next time mine decide to behave like animals at bedtime!

But thanks for suggesting I don't do enough for them. That's really helped.

I don't think that PP was suggesting you don't do enough. If you didn't care you wouldn't be on here asking for help!

But I do think it's true that even preteens and teens act out when they want attention. If they don't get much of your time in the morning or after school because you're out at work, they're going to want to try and get it before bed.

I remember my mum working long hours as a teenager and I'd get really upset if she wasn't home for my bedtime several days in a row! Sounds silly looking back as an adult but I really resented her job for how long it meant she was out of the house.

As an adult of course I understand she had to work and had no choice, but teenage me often couldn't rationalise that and just felt it was unfair.

Can you schedule some quality time with them in the evenings occasionally? Maybe take them to dinner after school or have a pizza night once a week? Or maybe try something like a film night or watching a certain TV show all together?

I do also think it's important that the older one goes to bed later than the younger one - partitioning their room using furniture or a curtain could be the answer to that if you have the space.

I actually agree with zoobincan, I have a 10 and 15 yr old and the 10 yr old definitely needs me tobe around, even though he doesn't need to be with me. Actually I'd say the same for the 15 yr old, I'm a constant and I'm around for the boring bits, and their behaviour and emotional security would definitely suffer if that changed. However I recognise you are doing your best in a difficult situation OP. I'm a qualified teacher who doesn't teach (work as a TA) I absolutely do not know how you juggle single parenthood and teaching, let along being HOD, I would crumble under the pressure. You must be beyond exhausted, and the time you need to sit down and start planning for the next day is not the time for your kids to start acting up. I think try not to explode next time (easier said than done) and try and give them a bit of mum time, stories and snuggles etc, even 10 mins if you can. But of course they need to know the boundaries too.