The tone of the coverage of the Reynhard Sinaga case. *Title edited by MNHQ*

[Dogsaresomucheasier]

Just watching tonight’s news. I do not wish to minimise the trauma suffered by the victims of Reynhard Sinaga, but I’m really struggling with the reporting of the case; even from female journalists. It seems so full of empathy and gravitas, when so many female victims go unheard.

Well said, NearlyGranny!

I agree with yetanother

Well said nearlygranny

There is a concurrent thread running about Aiya Napa and the internalised misogyny on both that one (basically women saying that Aiya might be making it up, or 'we can't know what happened')and this one is shocking.

There’s no resemblance between the Aiya Napa case and this one. The former is shocking - appalling, definitely misogynistic treatment of a traumatised teenager. The latter is shocking for entirely different reasons. It’s not internalised misogyny to think it counterproductive to effectively complain that the press has been too nice to traumatised men and no amount of saying that's not what you are doing makes many of the comments on this thread come across any differently. If you don’t like internalised misogyny, then don’t risk coming across as though you have internalised misandry. It would have been far better to have framed this case as an example of exemplary reporting that should be the standard for all rape cases from now on, whatever the sex of the victims, and to have left it at that (if that's what people actually think). Leave the complaining about unfair treatment to less sensational serial-rape cases, as a case like this is never going to be perceived as anything but extraordinary.

press has been too nice to traumatised men and no amount of saying that's not what you are doing makes many of the comments on this thread come across any differently

Are you talking about all our comments? That’s very much misrepresentation of this thread. Not one person has said the press have been too nice, nor has anyone complained about the outrage shown. The thread focuses on the disparity of reporting between cases and language used. Does that bother you? Why?

Yes, women are treated appallingly in the media with respect to rape claims. This does not in any way excuse complaints about the reporting of this case.

no. People are applauding the reporting of this case and asking why it isn't the standard. The fact that so many people (including now my DH who only heard about it this morning) are mentioning it shows how unusual it is.

The reporting about the Aya Napa case has been strangely supportive. However others, Ched Evans since PP have already brought it up, was absolutely salacious and yet there was a drunk woman who could barely stagger (IIRC) who is presumed to be a drunken slut who would sleep with anything with a pulse. That is the difference.

Most voices on this thread are hoping that from now on, the reporting on this case will serve as a template for future rape cases.

(and the depressing thing is that we now have to warn young men about being careful with their drinks etc etc in the same way we have habitually warned young women and gay men)

It bothers me because when a shocking series of crimes are reported appropriately, I don’t think it is the time immediately to jump up and down and say, “but look at all the reports about women who have been called slags, or asking for it, or manipulative liars!” It’s just not the time to do it. The men deserve sympathy, so stop trying to deflect attention away from perfectly appropriate reactions. It’s like being at a funeral and saying to the other mourners, “yeah, it’s sad Uncle Bill’s dead, but he’s got tonnes of mourners and my Auntie Maud’s death was much more traumatic and hardly anyone bothered to come to her funeral, just because she’s a woman.” It hardly makes you sound like you think it actually is sad, because you are clearly more interested in Auntie Maud and are also mentioning her at an inappropriate time.

When is the time though? In 2 months when it's all forgotten? When the next woman is being dragged through the mud for dressing provoctively and daring to holiday in a place where people go to get drunk and have sex?

The time to bring it up is now. The time to discuss it is now -because we have had some very good reporting, sensitively handled especially in the reports of what the victims are going through now. And long may it stay that way because this crime is beyond awful.

It’s very odd @Walkaround that you’re seeking to control the narrative around reporting of sex offences involving women; and now you’re seeking to control the timeframe too.

The time to bring it up is when the British media show its hasn’t learnt its lesson, and not in terms of saying the reporting of the Reynard Sinaga case makes you feel sad because it makes you think of all the women who have gone unheard in the past. If you think the reporting of this case was good and should be a model for the future, then that is all you need to say at this point in time. When it is not used as a model, then you can bring it up again and ask why everything has descended to the usual lows.

It’s very odd, TatianaLariana, that you think I am attempting to control a narrative rather than giving my opinion. You are entirely free to ignore my opinion - I have no more control over anything than you do.

Not odd in the context that you exhorted posters to “Just stop” twice on the previous page.

You weren’t merely giving your opinion you were telling other posters what to do.

And now you’re telling us when to discuss it.

Nearly Granny

"justice system routinely appears to sentence rapists more leniently if their victims are female."

Could you post a link to prove this.

TatianaLariana - I’m not telling anyone anything other than what I think and how I am reacting to their comments . What are you trying to do with your comments?

When it is not used as a model, then you can bring it up again

Well then I’ll have to strongly disagree with you Walk. There is no better time to bring this issue up. A news story like this of such high profile throws into high relief the difference in language, emphasis and facts presented by the media across different cases. It’s noticed.

It’s relevant because reporting is not unbiased, ever. It’s not an accident or random that cases are reported differently, or in a ‘model’ form, and the easy routes to sex bias in the press and media are known and the paths well trodden.

I’m not telling anyone anything other than what I think and how I am reacting to their comment. What are you trying to do with your comments?

I’m just highlighting the fact that you’re not just telling people what you think, you’re telling them to ‘just stop’ saying what they’re saying. There’s a difference. Now you’re trying to tell us when you think the discussion should take place. It’s not up to you.

That’s fine, NewYearsHumberElla - I only hope you are right, because my reaction to this case immediately being picked apart in this way is revulsion. If other people are in a fit state to take in the semantic differences in reporting between male and female rape cases right now, then great. I’m still not convinced the differences would have been stark if a man was successfully convicted of drugging and raping /sexually assaulting so many women, though. Once a conviction is achieved, let alone multiple convictions, reporting tends to be sympathetic. It's unsuccessful cases that tend to attract appalling misogynism and I think the prosecution had a 100% success rate in all 4 cases brought.

Ched Evans was a successful case the first time round...

TatianaLariana - it goes without saying I can’t control what other people do. It is entirely unnecessary for me to make sure I phrase everything I say in terms of “please will you,” or “I think it would be nice if you,” or “I think the more you go on about this the more harm you do to a cause I otherwise agree with” to make that obvious - it is already obvious.

it goes without saying I can’t control what other people do

Right, so there’s no point exhorting people to “stop” a particular line of argument you don’t like, and to discuss it at a later date.

I’m not suggesting you say please, I’m suggesting you don’t bother.

That’s interesting, TatianaLarina. I thought the Ched Evans case was horrible - everything a rape case shouldn’t be. Maybe it’s the newspapers I read, though, but I only remember criticism of what evidence was allowed to go to trial, how awful the alpha male famous footballer entitlement culture was, how nasty some peoples comments about the woman were on social media, and how unfair it was in the woman. Was media reporting extremely harsh towards her even after the first trial when he was convicted?

And by that, I mean mainstream news media, as I think that’s what this thread is talking about, not vile comments by people on social media.

TatianaLarina - and as you can’t control me, I’m not going to follow your “suggestion” not to bother, btw...

What a depressing, screwed up thread.