AIBU to ask how many of you are seriously revising whether (or how often) you fly again?

[Thelowquietsea]

We don't fly often (one flight a year tops, mostly to Europe) but reducing my air travel is one of the few differences I can make towards climate change.

And yet, I'm celebrating a big birthday this year. I had an idea to take myself to a retreat quite far away, and now it's 'booking' time, I can't quite bring myself to do it. Especially in light of Australia's tragedy. I'm really torn.

How many of you are making serious sacrifices in this area?

Mango

You said...

But it presents a more complicated picture of China’s export market.... it has global reach and has huge export markets in Africa and Latin America.

And I agree. For each of us, everywhere we live, large parts of the world are beyond our control. So we do what we can, where we can and leave it for people in those areas to do what they can too. They are witnessing the same climate events as us and those that care will inevitably be drawing their own conclusions and making their own lifestyle changes regardless. And our actions will no doubt strengthen resolve elsewhere.

To do nothing because of something happening elsewhere is an excuse for inaction, I'm afraid.

'we're a drop in the ocean compared to China...' (as if the Chinese economy has nothing to do with our consumption of the goods they produce!)

They have an enormous internal market.

If anyone has any more suggestions I can add to that list, please fire ahead.

Businesses can do a number of easy things:

Change their default search engine to something like ecosia who plant trees for a certain number of searches.

Make it the rule that people don't email chains unless absolutely necessary and only copy in those who really need to see the email. Or better still pick up the phone or walk over and talk to the person instead.

Compulsory clear outs of unnecessary emails.

Compulsory unsubscription to junk email (although i agree the companies don't always unsubscribe you).

Efforts to reuse office supplies and equipment. We used to get through crazy numbers of biros - dumping loads of plastic into landfill in the process. It wasn't that case that they were all used up. They just disappear and so people walked over and got a new one. Even better, switch to refillable pens.

Green spaces around office premises. All plant life helps but planting trees in particular on unused ground.

Plenty of recycling points for all sorts of things. Having a battery recycling point for example means people will also bring them in from home. Likewise printer cartridges, water filters, lightbulbs.

Make sure that office kitchens and canteens are not using plastic cutlery/paper plates/polystyrene cartons etc.

Encouraging people to bring packed lunches rather than go out and buy lunch.

Compulsory logging off at night rather than leaving computers etc on standby.

Encourage people to bring reusable water bottles/use a glass and water from the tap.

Larger employers can run cycle to work schemes/provide season ticket loans for public transport etc.

I'm sure there are loads more but this is a list of some of the things my old firm was doing

crackofdoom

Devereux1 likes a good row.

If she diverted her arguing time to reducing emissions, we'd all be a lot better off.

Devereux1 As I said... Enjoy your day.

a lot of the trans Europe night trains have been discontinued, although hopefully we'll be seeing this trend reverse in the future.

Yes, I'm hoping for this along with reinstatement of some of the ferry routes between the UK and Northern Europe that used to exist.

We don't fly frequently as a family, but my DH has had to do so more often for business in recent years. Unfortunately that's unavoidable in most instances as his employers aren't willing to have him away for the extra days that it would take him to travel by rail/ferry. Plus from an entirely selfish point of view, I am not wild about the idea of him being away for longer than he has to be. That said, next week he is in London one day and Brussels the next so he is travelling by train to London and then taking the Eurostar, so if it is feasible he does try to avoid flying.
We are going by ferry to the Isle of Man this year and haven't booked any other holidays so far as I am waiting for an operation and am not sure yet if travel abroad is going to be feasible. If we do have a second holiday it will either be in the UK or we might go to family in northern Spain but we would take the ferry for that anyway. So we may not fly at all as a family this year, though I can't claim that is entirely for environmental reasons.

crackofdoom Tue 07-Jan-20 14:34:29

crackofdoom
Devereux1 It was you that said this, wasn't it?
No, it wasn't.

I took that to mean that you wanted it to be clearly explained to you what the climate emergency was? Did I misunderstand?
Yes, you did. You wrote if..you would really like to learn about the overwhelming body of scientific opinion pointing to climate change. I know about the body of opinion pointing to climate change.

Companies can stop with all the ridiculous flying abroad.

In a company I worked at, we had a client in Denmark who liked to fly out all the people who were working on their projects "to meet them". They'd then make us fly out every 2 months just to sit at their desks instead of ours. The most ridiculous one was when they made my husband fly out for a 1-day meeting, then when he got there it was half-empty, because loads of the Danish staff had decided to WFH that day and dial in!

SoEverybodyDance
Devereux1 likes a good row.

Asking you a simple question about your claims isn't rowing. How bizarre that you claim there is a climate emergency, but you are so affronted if anyone dares ask you why.

If she diverted her arguing time to reducing emissions, we'd all be a lot better off.
Back to square one again. By how much? You keep going on about that we should do things, but you don't say why, what impact any of that would have.

This is the fundamental problem. People keep saying "you've got to do something" but when you ask them what?, why?, to what end?, how will that help?, they've got absolutely nothing behind their claims. They clam up, they get angry. If you ask them a simple basic question, they view this as "attacking" them. It's pure woke absurdity.

Enjoy your day.
Oh, I am!

ItIsWhat that is bad

One place I worked at had telepresence wall which was great, with the added amusement of feeling like you were presenting the 6 0clock news. Still they didn’t use it often and Still a lot if flying for business.

I have to admit I am sort of bemused by the term 'climate emergency'. I suppose I'll have to be sent to the re-education camp with @Devereux1

And our actions will no doubt strengthen resolve elsewhere

I think the promise of a better life is even stronger. Bottom line, people should not feel guilty for taking flights, as it really does make little difference in the scheme of things. And in UK terms, it makes zero difference. So enjoy your foreign holidays.

I celebrated a big birthday last year
I worked a lot of overtime to pay for this holiday
The holiday included long haul flights, short haul flights, ferries, car journeys, to an exotic location
It was the best holiday that I've experienced so far !
Do I regret it ? Hell no !
I had the time & money
I do travel in my home country too

I've noticed on other threads that people are encouraged to travel when young. Which contradicts other people saying, decrease flights

When cars all become electric in the future, where is all the extra electric going to be produced from ?

Also with increased technology, the previous poster is correct that data centres, data storage will cost more to maintain over time

Specially for deveaurx1

Why is there a climate emergency?

It is called an emergency because the most likely impact of humanities actions on the planet is to change the climate in such as way as to make the planet uninhabitable for most / all humans within the next 50 to 100 years. Those actions specifically are the fast release of large amounts of warming gases into the atmosphere,

That’s your child’s lifetime ( which will be shortened if action is not taken) even if it’s not in your lifetime. If action is taken now, the worst of the effects can be avoided. If action is taken in 10 years time, the planet will become mostly uninhabitable. We have known about this for ? 70? Years and failed to take action. Hence it’s a climate emergency. The scientific consensus on this is astonishing.

How much do we need to reduce emissions by?

Ideally net zero. Which means that no new global warming gases reach the atmosphere.
If emissions fall by 50% between now and 2030 and then reach zero by 2050, we would likely see significant food and water shortages, leading to death or migration of probably billions of people.

What needs to happen?
Massive changes. Renewable electricity generation and a transport revolution. Replacement of gas central heating. Changes to diet and agriculture.

Gosh that sounds massive. Surely anything I can do would be pointless?
Each and every action that we take now makes it easier to get to net zero. Further, people taking actions themselves will convince governments and big business do something.

Isn’t it up to government to sort out?
They need to step up yes. They won’t do it if they think most people don’t care or, it they think that people care but are not willing to make personal changes

What about China and India and the us?
China will change if they think it will affect their sales abroad. It requires global cooperation, trade penalties. Nothing difficult. The US government will change one day. Some rich parts of US are at short term risk which will sharpen minds.

Won’t life be grim?
It doesn’t have to be. We should still be able to travel the world, enjoy good food, keep warm. Just in different ways . Life under the more extreme cases will rapidly become much worse.

So take one less flight, reduce meat and diary, walk a bit more and put on a jumper. If everyone of us can halve our personal impact that would be awesome.

the most likely impact of humanities actions on the planet is to change the climate in such as way as to make the planet uninhabitable for most / all humans within the next 50 to 100 years

This is not true. Please stop spreading misinformation.

If emissions fall by 50% between now and 2030 and then reach zero by 2050, we would likely see significant food and water shortages, leading to death or migration of probably billions of people

It’s important to keep in mind that the major famines of the 20th century have been from political causes. Think Great Leap Forward (Green Leap Forward?)

Changes to diet and agriculture

We feed the world through economies of scale via fossil fuel intensive agriculture. There is no other way to feed the planet. That’s just food.

...and GMO. It will be necessary in the future (and is not harmful despite what all the scaremongers would like to have you believe).

I am reducing my flights.

We have a holiday home in Europe - I am switching at least half my trips there from flying to the train. Would do more if there wasn't such a large price difference.

I also have to take domestic flights occasionally for work, have been switching some of these to train where feasible (if journey can be done in 6 hours or less). When it isn't possible, I have been offsetting and charging my clients for the offsets.

OP I actually think a long haul flight for a special occasion is justifiable. Just wouldn't do it it too often! (Max once every few years - we flew to the West Coast of the USA in 2018 for a family wedding, and turned it into a holiday. Offset the flights and I think it is OK. George Monbiot calls it 'love miles".)

I'd like to know

If 1000 people were given a free long haul holiday to an exotic location of their choice or the choice of a no fly staycation.
How many would really choose the staycation ( excluding people who don't like flying )?

Having had loads of great staycations

It would be an exotic, unvisited location for myself, every time

Some people might curtail their airmiles, but I'm afraid most will just go and that's that. Holidays, business, whatever.

Overland is not an option in many cases. I fail to see the alternatives unless you stick around your own area and can travel easily on other modes.

Unless America for example forgets cars (as if) and other countries continue to carry on regardless, it is not going to happen anytime soon really.

So maybe the best thing to do is not to buy shares in ANYTHING that affects climate. Yeah right.

2/3 of world population lives in cities today that would be under water with a 4 degree rise in temperature? What will happen to those people? How will those floods occur...gradual water rise where people migrate...where...or more sudden and dangerous flood events where people die?

Yes, economics caused many famines in the 20th century, alongside local droughts and wars, so yes the sharing of wealth and resources will affect how many people die as a result of climate change. But please don't pretend that climate change won't cause more famine.

It can be stopped. It could be disastrous.

Re. the China argument - it works both ways. They also will not cut down if we don't - I've seen this in the recent policy debates. They are looking for leadership from Europe and elsewhere.

Also, the leadership is conscious that if they do not reduce emissions, the Beijing area becomes a desert in the not too distant future. Not to mention many issues with how many harvests the soil will take, but that's another matter...

Plus - the point is everything needs to get to net zero by mid-century so whether something is 2 percent or not is not really the point, all things must reduce. Or, in the next 30 - 40 years whole swathes of the planet become unlivable. Imagine that this fireseason in Australia is the same every year? That this is also the case for large areas elsewhere?

And more than this, reducing now makes a difference - any amount lower helps. I.e. limiting global warming to 1.6 degrees is far better than 2 for example. And the earlier we do it the better, so if we reduce a lot now that also has an impact. See e.g. twitter.com/wef/status/1049741312394694656

between 1.5 and 2 degrees we lose all coral reefs..currently we are on track for 3 degrees (more or less unlivable world, giant species destruction, mass flooding, crop failures).

also the UK has agreed to net zero by 2050 in legislation.. so things are moving.. the EU will soon agree to it as well. Change is coming, but no way fast enough (but all this - no point because of China is massively self defeating).

@MangoFeverDream "The most likely impact of humanities actions on the planet is to change the climate in such as way as to make the planet uninhabitable for most / all humans within the next 50 to 100 years

This is not true. Please stop spreading misinformation."

This is absolutely true - have you seen what happens between 3 and 4 degrees? The truth is that there are many things that can be done, we just have to get on and do them (and the studies, policies, technologies, everything exists).

callmedavid
It is called an emergency because the most likely impact of humanities actions on the planet is to change the climate in such as way as to make the planet uninhabitable for most / all humans within the next 50 to 100 years.

Thank you for some details. OK.
What is that likelihood, in terms of probability? How was it measured? By whom?
An uninhabitable planet within the next 50/100 years is, of course, an incredible claim. How was this timespan arrived at precisely?
What is the second most likely impact? What criteria was used to decide that the 50/100 uninhabitable outcome is the most likely?

There have been droughts, floods other natural disasters in the past. Look at the rise and fall of numerous civilians in the past

We don't know when the next natural disaster will occur