AIBU to ask how many of you are seriously revising whether (or how often) you fly again?

[Thelowquietsea]

We don't fly often (one flight a year tops, mostly to Europe) but reducing my air travel is one of the few differences I can make towards climate change.

And yet, I'm celebrating a big birthday this year. I had an idea to take myself to a retreat quite far away, and now it's 'booking' time, I can't quite bring myself to do it. Especially in light of Australia's tragedy. I'm really torn.

How many of you are making serious sacrifices in this area?

Just pointing at China and saying, anything we do in the UK is irrelevant cos just look at China is illogical. Look at the net emissions of the EU. Look at those of the US. Let's ALL stop consuming so much

It’s not illogical. It’s the reality. Nothing you donin the UK will matter. Simple maths. That’s not to say you should be wasteful, but you have to keep things in perspective.

In fact, the US is largely moving away from coal and towards natural gas which will result in fewer emissions. China will peak at some point in the coming decades, and hopefully will be a little more ambitious with their nuclear programme.

But that is up to their national goals and ambitions. What the UK does (perhaps the EU as a whole even) is pretty irrelevant

The impact of stored emails/junk mail is massive for example and all you need to do is unsubscribe to the rubbish and delete things you don't need

I'm not sure if unsubscribing will have much impact though. I ignored all the GDPR emails, and never subscribe to any mailing lists, so in theory I shouldn't get any junk mail, but I get loads, and I suspect that it's now that cookies message that's responsible, I can't think how else they do it.

Plus there's all the real junk that we don't ever see, but's still pinging round the internet by the billion. Also online photo storage. Every individual with a smartphone probably has thousands of high resolution images stored in their gmail/apple online account with 90%+ of them being complete rubbish that will never get looked at or deleted. Bitcoin too, that takes up oodles of resources I remember reading about when it was going through a boom.

If lots of people do a little to improve it all adds up

Yes.

The biggest problem we have is that the world economy is based on conspicuous consumption. There needs to be a completely new type of economy.

Nothing you donin the UK will matter

It does. It may not affect climate change globally but if people drive less and walk more local air pollution drops with massive health benefits.

And if we use less and recycle more, we spend less money on getting rid of rubbish and that money can be reinvested in public services (in theory!)

as if the Chinese economy has nothing to do with our consumption of the goods they produce!

As if the Chinese do not already export to other countries outside the EU. I think the UK is at most 2% of their export market. Vietnam is higher!

Not flown since 2014 and we don't have a car.

if people drive less and walk more local air pollution drops with massive health benefits

This is a fine thing to advocate for and I’d definitely support it. But it will do nothing to halt climate change.

I used to happily rely on public transport and the odd taxi for 38 years - worked for me fine. But whenever I mentioned I didn’t drive people would look at me like I was some kind of social leper “oh poor you” “but how do you survive?” “how do you eat?” “how do you get to ...” “you really need to start driving” etc etc and on and on.
I’ve finally started driving now at 38 as we have a second kid on the way - ironically just as people’s attitudes are starting to adapt to reality.... but the battle of “social status/look at my modern/independent/successful early 21st century lifestyle” VS climate change is just heating, up you fear.

I agree about the over-washing. If I ran my washing machine anywhere near as much as the average MNer, I wouldn't have time for a job! Towels and pyjamas being washed after 1 use is absolutely nuts.

"Clean clothes" doesn't mean everything has to be laundered within an inch of its life before every single use. To me it means no obvious smells or stains (and minor smells you can get rid of by hanging it out in the sun). Most of the microplastic in the ocean comes from laundering synthetic fabrics which shed fibres into the waterways.

I need to review our energy usage. Never considered photos backed up on cloud. Not been abroad since 2012 though.

Mango you would absolutely expect Vietman to be higher because they are neighbouring countries. And that also means air miles will be much less.

Statistics need context to be understood properly.

We only fly once every 2-3 years now, instead of 2-3 times every year.

you would absolutely expect Vietman to be higher because they are neighbouring countries. And that also means air miles will be much less

But it presents a more complicated picture of China’s export market. It’s not merely a factory zone for developed Western countries; it has global reach and has huge export markets in Africa and Latin America.

So no, you can’t completely say that the West has shifted carbon emissions to China like some have implied. Their export market has grown independently of this.

I took 8 flights last year. It's more than average, but I'm vegetarian, don't drive, have cut right back on plastic and recycle everything. I'm not saying that cancels the flights out, but honestly I haven't resolved to fly less. In fact, work probably means I'll fly more this year. I don't think holidaymakers are going to make that much of a difference - it's things like reducing air freight, using more efficient plane engines etc. We don't need millions of strawberries flown to us every winter.

We rarely fly, I hate it. Last time was 4 years ago.

SoEverybodyDance
I looked at your post asking what the climate emergency was.

Great, you said there was a climate emergency and I asked what it was exactly. Are you able to answer and explain clearly what it is then?

I thought either you're on a desert island and you've just got online (nice for you)
Why would you think that? I never said I hadn't heard of it.

or you're a bit of a cantankerous mumsnetter and like a good argument (sad for you)
Why would you be so rude when someone just asks you for a clear explanation of what you mean?

You have stated there is a climate emergency. I'm asking you what that climate emergency is. Why are you so defensive about such a question?

If you can't answer my question, just say so.

Yes. I haven't flown for the last couple of years, and would only do it again in exceptional circumstances. But I don't really feel that I can lecture people on their flying, because I used to do lots of short haul flights for work (and long haul for travel) back in the day, and the impact of those flights is still to be fully felt in terms of climate change. DS1 is just about to take his first ever flight, as he has just been invited on a free exchange trip to Eastern Europe courtesy of the school, and there is no way I could refuse him that.

But some of the arguments and justifications I've read on this thread....honestly?? (facepalm). I'll just address the "Because I live for travelling" one, because honestly, so do I. But you know what? Flying is not the only way to travel . If you're travelling for sheer enjoyment and pleasure, by far the most enjoyable way to travel is by train (although sailing, cycling and walking are also pretty damn fine). Ditch the notion that enjoyability = going to the other side of the world, and a whole world opens up on your doorstep.

I do know it's not always THAT easy. If you go by train, some destinations are way easier than others. I wanted to go to a work conference in Portugal from my home in Cornwall this August, and the train journey would have been prohibitively long and expensive (and the ferry to Santander books up mega fast and is also expensive), so I didn't go. Conversely, Eurostar have some great deals to Amsterdam at the moment, so I might take the kids in May.

We're also suffering from a massive cheap flight culture at the moment- 25 years ago when I did a lot of my Euro travelling, cheap flights weren't always the default option, so I did a lot of train travel and hitching. Sadly, because of the cheap flight boom, a lot of the trans Europe night trains have been discontinued, although hopefully we'll be seeing this trend reverse in the future.

This instant Easyjet/ citybreak culture is also damaging a lot of cities across Europe at the moment, which are buckling under the weight of too many tourists.

It keeps our stress levels down and suits us and our DD

Spoken like someone with no experience of PTSD i assume
Have never had your own anxiety too i assume?
No?
You realize people do as they need to cope with mental illness. Especially after how dark it got for a time, we will put us first, today, in the now

I haven't flown for a few years and will avoid it in the future. We drive to Europe via the tunnel for our holidays now, or stay in the uk The bonus is we can take our own camping stuff in the car and enjoy a cheap family camping holiday. I realise that isn't everyone's cup of tea!

The way I see it, there's just no point in us saying, 'well I won't change my ways until all the other polluters do too.' That's just a lame excuse for doing nothing.

Flying is much worse for emissions than driving, so those saying you fly a lot but don't drive, so that's ok. It's not ok. Using a car for a year is equivalent to one plane trip, on average.

Actually, I'd like to see a system where we all have a carbon allowance, and we can decide what our own priorities are in spending it. It would be good if initially people could sell on their unused allowance, so that there's a nice incentive to reduce our carbon footprints. I guess the allowance could reduce steadily year on year, so people have time to plan and make changes. Then we'd get away from this feeling that it's pointless making sacrifices because no one else does.

I usually fly shorthaul (max 4 hours ish) 2 times a year for holidays and twice for work.

This year I am travelling on along haul trip, so have paid the £77 to offset it through MyClimate, I am looking to also begin off setting my short haul trips going foward too.

One of the work trips is up to Scotland, so I am looking at taking the train instead.

Devereux1 if you're not being disingenuous, and you would really like to learn about the overwhelming body of scientific opinion pointing to climate change, then I recommend that you attend one of the talks given by Extinction Rebellion called "Heading for Extinction, and What We Can Do About It", for a good summary. These are happening everywhere, all the time- just do a search for Extinction Rebellion and your nearest sizeable town, and I can guarantee you'll find a group running these talks.

crackofdoom
Devereux1 if you're not being disingenuous, and you would really like to learn about the overwhelming body of scientific opinion pointing to climate change

What has your suggestion got to do with anything I've asked? Have you got the right poster?

I’m going to take the train where possible, and am going to try not to fly. I think it is worth us all trying to do what we can, there are a lot of people trying to live better lives, and I don’t want to be one of the ones who didn’t try x

Devereux1 It was you that said this, wasn't it?

Great, you said there was a climate emergency and I asked what it was exactly. Are you able to answer and explain clearly what it is then?

I took that to mean that you wanted it to be clearly explained to you what the climate emergency was? Did I misunderstand?

I have cut my flights, and I'm the sales manager for a company that handles products requiring global travel, so have been implementing a strategy where we only fly if necessary, with as few numbers of connections as possible, and absolutely no flights within the UK between offices. If anyone has any more suggestions I can add to that list, please fire ahead.

Personally we holiday in the UK unless there is an exceptional reason for flying abroad (milestone birthday etc). I realise it's easier for me to do this as I've seen most of the world already and honestly, I prefer a UK holiday these days as they're less hassle, I love them and don't care what the weather is like.