Leaving a Tip in a Restaurant

[londonscalling]

I've been out for dinner tonight with family.

Although the meal was nice and the staff were friendly enough, the service really wasn't great.

We were given menus and all decided what we wanted. Only when we put our order in, were we told that a number of our chosen dishes were off the menu. This happened on the main course and desserts.

We were given dessert menus before they'd cleared all the dishes from the main course.

The wrong dessert was served.

It wasn't a cheap meal.

I decided against leaving a tip. I'm now feeling guilty. Was I wrong?

if you’re eating meals out, you almost certainly don’t need the money more than the waiting staff

Not necessarily, I work in hospitality and eat meals out for special occasions, should I not be allowed to because I can't afford the meal and a generous tip?

You must work in hospitality then. If the service is shit there’s no way I’d leave a tip...

Why must they? I work in hospitality, tips are a taxed bonus and I don't think here nor there if someone doesn't tip. I think it's up to the individual if they want to or not. Not everyone in hospitality is like that. Rather be treated like a human being than have a tip.
No one needs to justify why they do or don't leave a tip as far as I'm concerned, and in these days of trip advisor and social media reviews, there's worse concequences to poor service than not getting a tip.

YANBU. I never tip. I don't see why I should cover some of the costs of any business in addition to the costs I am already covering through my payment, nor do I see why anyone should receive more than their salary for just doing their job.

@Freddiefatpants they're not taxed when it's a cash tip in a pub

@Pugwash1 you sound really nice. Why are you friends with such horrible people? I went out for dinner with a girl from work once. She was so rude and snide to the waitress for absolutely nothing that I nipped that blossoming friendship straight in the bud.

@Mlou32 we stopped inviting my boss to team meals because he was so rude to waiting staff. He got upset that he was no longer invited so my friend told him why. He doesn't attend now because he feels like he's not welcome - he's not willing to change his ways. Weird.

@GiveHerHellFromUs

You're supposed to declare them as income, I get them periodically in a lump sum as all tips are pooled where I work. There's a trail, so I declare them.

It's not a case of who needs the money more. I may need money more than my cleaner that doesn't mean I can pay her less.The accepted standard in the UK is to tip. If a waiter is working in a nice restaurant they may be fairly well paid as a result of tips - that's as it should be since they've worked hard and had to prove themselves to be of a decent standard to work in an upmarket place. While a waiter will always have their wages made up to minimum wage (which is very little) the tips will be what tales their earnings to a more reasonable level. Routinely not tipping is legal but very cheap and unpleasant in my opinion. I only eat at restaurants where I can afford to pay my bill and leave a reasonable tip. It's OK not to tip if service was awful but I usually leave something as often the screw up is due to poor management rather than lazy wait staff.

@Mlou32. They are part of a hobby so come with the territory. Thankfully more people have now seen them for what they are and pay seperately. They would do things like say the children shouldn't pay yet their children would eat off the adult menu and have 3 courses! They would collect all the cash which people had included tips in, pay by card and pocket the tips. Once people realised they didn't need to follow the herd they paid their own way resulting in an uncomfortable episode where the huge bill they were expecting to share turned out to just be theirs and eveyone had kept their receipts to prove it!

It's not a case of who needs the money more. I may need money more than my cleaner that doesn't mean I can pay her less

That's a daft analogy. Yours cleaner sets her price and you either pay it or do your own cleaning. Tipping us discretionary.

The accepted standard in the UK is to tip

It's discretionary.

Routinely not tipping is legal but very cheap and unpleasant in my opinion

No. Being rude, awkward or demanding to a waiter is unpleasant.

There is a national minimum/living wage for everyone. There's a national minimum wage for everyone but it's below the calculated "living wage"

I don't tip anyone, ever. There is a national minimum/living wage for everyone.

Which waiting staff often do not earn.
And even if they do - if you think it is possible to live off the NMW, you are living in a bubble of privilege.

If you do tip, where does it end?

• Postman or woman
• Delivery drivers
• Shop assistants
• Teachers
• Dentist

Funnily enough, @BaubleWobbler, I've been able to tip waiting staff all my adult life without being held at gunpount & forced to tip non-related staff from other professions.
So, it ends with the waiter getting a tip to bump up their appallingly low hourly rate, & your 'reductio ad absurdum' argument is a pathetic excuse.

Dinner out is a luxury. If you can't afford, or are too tight, to tip, don't go out to dinner.

But the workers are paid the same any any other NMW job and none of those receive tips.

But the workers are not working other NMW jobs, & maybe they chose waiting work because it DOES tip, when people aren't making daft assumptions or tightwad excuses.

You may not be aware, @Pinkyyy, but many waiting staff do not even earn NMW. Google Tronc payroll - waiting staff pay has been abused for decades through this system, which allows employers to avoid paying full NI contributions & pay well under NMW.

if you’re eating meals out, you almost certainly don’t need the money more than the waiting staff.

What a ridiculous comment.

Not all all - do you seriously believe that waiting staff can afford nice meals out?

So people who are strapped for cash should have to tip if they stretch to a meal out for a friends birthday?

Yes, you are finally getting it.

Waiters get paid at least the minimum wage

Quite often they do not, @PaprikaPringle - see point about Tronc payroll above.

I'm a waitress the pay is absolute shit 14 hour days 6 days a week what I get in tips is a god send to me but I don't think ywbu with this it's all about the service .

Dinner out is a luxury. If you can't afford, or are too tight, to tip, don't go out to dinner

Oh look - the dinner police have arrived.

Those of you who may eat out and may not tip have been told!

Not all all - do you seriously believe that waiting staff can afford nice meals out?

Not all the time I can't, but I do sometimes for a special occasion. That's more patronising to waiting staff than anything else I've read on here actually, basically saying that they shouldn't go out to a restaurant and enjoy a meal that they've likely had to save for in the first place for a birthday or anniversary because they can't afford to leave a generous tip. I'm polite and basically not an arse to waiting staff, even when things go wrong, and I'm picky about service and will say something if something isn't right - but politely and civilly. I tip a small amount for good service, but I'm not leaving myself short or not going because I can't leave exactly 10%. I have as much right as anyone else to attend a friend's birthday or whatever. Or would you prefer the likes of me stuck to McDonald's where we belong?!

Plenty of people have to live off the NMW. They don't get tips. Tip if you want to but don't criticise those who choose not to.

You may not be aware, @Pinkyyy, but many waiting staff do not even earn NMW. Google Tronc payroll - waiting staff pay has been abused for decades through this system, which allows employers to avoid paying full NI contributions & pay well under NMW

Well, @messolini9 or Mussolini the Tip Disctator) is, again, talking rubbish.

Sighs.

Prior to 2008, yes, payments via tronc could be used to make up staff wages to minimum wage.

Since 2008, however, that has not,been the case. It was well publicised at the time.

Gratuities paid by customers (including discretionary service charges, card tips and cash) do not count as earnings for the purposes of the National Minimum Wage Regulations. This is regardless of whether they are paid via a tronc system, given directly by a customer or paid by a business as part of earnings.

All employees must be paid at least the appropriate National Minimum Wage rate before counting tronc or gratuities. (or Mussolini the Tip Disctator) is, again, talking rubbish.

Perhaps try googling 'tronc' and 'new' before berating other posters to do so

🙄.

😒

('nmw'', not 'new')

These threads pop up on AIBU every few weeks. It’s always:

‘I always tip, I know servers work hard and I have worked in hospitality’.

‘I tip when it’s good service but not bad’

‘I would literally rather swallow the menu whole than leave an extra penny’

Don’t tip if it was rubbish.

I think the main problem with wages in the hospitality industry is not the hourly rate but the fact that most people are employed on zero hour contracts and don’t know from week to week what hours they have been allocated.

This is fine if the person is a student or young person living at home with no overheads but a nightmare for actual adults trying to fund a life.

This is why there is bad service in restau rants. People can’t deal with the zero hour contracts when they have bills to pay, so move on to a different industry where yes it might still be minimum wage but at least they know what their wage will be on an ongoing basis so they can plan their lives.

However, I do not see this as a justification for tipping being compulsory. I myself tip if I want to but usually give 10% of the bill. So not a great amount.

Employers need to step up and sort this shit out.

I bloody hate, with a real passion, the sort of judgy, superior types we get in the UK.

You know, the sort that think because they "work hard" (aren't most of us?!) they can sit and pass some sort of exacting judgement on the service being offered to them at a restaurant, then deign to offer a tip if the person has met their arbitrary criteria.

It smacks of superiority, and makes me think those tight types are more looking for a reason NOT to tip, than actual reasons for poor service.

The reality is, if you can afford to eat out, you should factor in service into the costs you're expecting to pay. Maybe forgo another bottle of wine if you're struggling to afford it.

All this "they get minimum wage" crap is just a race to the bottom. Service staff do not get paid well. It's often a stopgap job or the first rung on a ladder. It's not easy conditions and stressful.

The US have it totally right in my view - I leave something between 15% - 20% wherever I go. I don't sit in judgement. And if there's something wrong with the experience I'm having? I say, give them a chance to correct it. Not dock money like some overlord. Just weird to me.