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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Dead naming and the perversion/erasure of women's history

130 replies

CaptSkippy · 05/01/2020 18:12

For those who are no familiar with the term, "dead naming" refers to the use an old (usually first) name trans-people used to have before they transitioned and took on a new name. It will surprise no one that trans-women get most upset about this an cry bigotry if an old name is used or even alluded to.

But recently I have begun to see the consequences of the widely accepted taboo on these names in full effect, although it should surprise no one that this was going to happen and I think in fact many feminists have been warning us for years (if not decades).

I like to watch videos online about feminist debates and feminists lectures. Some Youtube channels are devoted solely to that purpose. A particular interest of mine is the topic of women's history and how it has been largely left out of the history books.

However, sometimes I will see a speaker or panelist and get a strong impression I am looking at a trans-woman. This is usually brought on by a very distinct masculine mannerism or shape of face.
Sometimes my suspiscions are confirmed when a speaker had access to certain male institutions that were untill recent decades off-limits to women, but are now known as the first women in such an institution (such as Jenner). However, often times Google will tell me nothing, due to the taboo on the subject. If it's not about sports or other male only fields, I can't find anything at all.

I often wonder if I am just paranoid and seeing trans-women where there are none. What galls me is that I can't tell. I can't research it. I can't know who were the first women doing exactly what, due to our exclusion from history books and now I also can't tell sometimes, because we have to accept supposedly former men as "female" pioneers.

Am I unreasonable to be suspicious of certain feminist-minded speakers or I am letting my paranoia getting the better of me?

OP posts:
WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 05/01/2020 22:10

Top sentence bold fail, was meant to be a quote!

Grumpydad1540 · 05/01/2020 22:12

So is you’re argument “more women are being raped” or “more women are being raped by women”? Because to be honest I’m not sure there’s a huge difference to the victims...if you’re only offended because statistically you, as a woman, are being “tarred with the same brush” then maybe learn some compassion?

FrogsFrogs · 05/01/2020 22:12

'crime stats will make no difference to the way crimes are dealt with.'

Sure they do. Money is diverted where it's seen statistically that there's a problem. Training is carried out to change attitudes around certain demographics. Loads of stuff flows from crime stats.

Getting rid of recording demographic info will be pretty handy for some groups though, for sure.

FrogsFrogs · 05/01/2020 22:14

Grumpy I'll not sure you are following this. Two of us have posted a link as requested (think it might be the same one!) and I don't think my posts were unclear

FYI men and boys can be victims of rape as well.

Thelnebriati · 05/01/2020 22:16

Grumpydad1540 Dont be silly. Stop trying to goad and try to understand the actual problems this agenda is causing.
Statistics need to be accurate for many reasons, including planning and allocation of resources.

Grumpydad1540 · 05/01/2020 22:16

And as I said, crime stats make very little difference to the victim of crime...but thanks for “mansplaining”

FrogsFrogs · 05/01/2020 22:17

No, this is what you said

'crime stats will make no difference to the way crimes are dealt with'

It's right there a few posts ago where everyone can read it!

Grumpydad1540 · 05/01/2020 22:18

@Thelnebriati agenda??? Which agenda is this? Agenda suggests a deliberate plate by a subsection of society to bring about a chain of events

Grumpydad1540 · 05/01/2020 22:18

Play not plate*

FrogsFrogs · 05/01/2020 22:19

So to summarise

You don't believe that demographic info is of any use when it comes to crime stats.

Is that your position.

FrogsFrogs · 05/01/2020 22:19

Or is it that you don't believe collecting crime stats serves any purpose.

?

Grumpydad1540 · 05/01/2020 22:21

I don’t believe targeting any group based on nothing more than an irrational fear of that group is useful in suckers. I don’t believe any of your links have pointed to stats that price trans people are more affecting crime statistics and i don’t believe, in 2020, such bigoted views exist. But hey, we’re all different right?

Grumpydad1540 · 05/01/2020 22:22

Society not suckers.

Grumpydad1540 · 05/01/2020 22:22

Prove not price

FrogsFrogs · 05/01/2020 22:24

You haven't answered the question about whether you think collecting accurate demographic stats around perpetrators and victims of crime is useful. You seem to indicate it isn't but I'd like for you to clarify.

FrogsFrogs · 05/01/2020 22:25

Do you believe sex crime stats unfairly target men?

Grumpydad1540 · 05/01/2020 22:25

I think statistics can say whatever you want them to say - as you are proving. Do you agree with stop and search by the way?

Grumpydad1540 · 05/01/2020 22:26

No I don’t...I don’t doubt for a second men commit much more crime than women, particularly when it comes to sex crimes.

FrogsFrogs · 05/01/2020 22:27

Huh?

Talk about changing the subject!

Is your position that demographics around crime should not be collected as they 'say anything you want them to say', etc.

Isn't it useful to know how many black men are 'accidentally' killed by the met, for example?
Any use to know the ages of victims of mugging?
Etc.

FrogsFrogs · 05/01/2020 22:28

'I don’t doubt for a second men commit much more crime than women, particularly when it comes to sex crimes.'

Why don't you doubt it?

Thelnebriati · 05/01/2020 22:28

We have provided you with evidence that police trying to catch a rapist were impeded by their inability to accurately described the rapists sex or name, but you still maintain there's no problem?

Male DNA is found at a crime scene; who should the police look for?

FrogsFrogs · 05/01/2020 22:28

Not because of the stats, I assume Wink

Grumpydad1540 · 05/01/2020 22:29

I’ve never argued with the need for statistics, I’ve argued that using “crime stats” as a reason to persecute a section of society is disingenuous at best

FrogsFrogs · 05/01/2020 22:30

If you're not going to make your position clear, and keep changing the subject, it becomes hard to have this conversation with you tbh.

Grumpydad1540 · 05/01/2020 22:32

Erm, I’ve kept my position clear the whole time...a section of Mumsnet is dedicated to persecuting trans people, by whatever means necessary.