Using E-cigarette in a meeting

[StrawberryShortbread2001]

I'm a support worker and work on a ward. E-cigs are allowed in the communal rooms (lounge, dining room) and the bedrooms. The only time they're not allowed is in ward round.

We were having a community meeting which we have every week. E-cigarettes are allowed to be used during the meeting. This was a special meeting about a certain issue so as well as the usual service users, nurses, support workers, occupational therapists and social worker - the consultant, head social worker, psychologist and hospital manager were there. One of the service users was engaging and putting a point across with a bit of back and forth. She was using her e-cig when not talking. Suddenly the hospital manager looked at her a bit horrified and said 'are you smoking?' She said 'No! I'm using a e-cigarette' The consultant then jumped in to say she shouldn't be using it. She was embarrassed and confused at being called out on it and stopped engaging in the meeting. At the end she spoke to the consultant to tell him they always used e-cigarettes in the merting and he told her she should have known not to use it and she needs to be more flexible in her thinking.

Am I right to think 1. If e-cigs weren't to be used it should have been announced at the beginning of the meeting and 2. She shouldn't have been called out in public like that

It caused the service user a lot of upset and has really wound me up!

@TabbyMumz - thanks for that. Smoking does go on in the grounds of general hospitals. It is another one open to debate as to if hcas/nurses should take patients out for smokes - but it does happen.

@FormerlyFrikadela01 we need more gobby people in MH 🥰

Restrictive practice is something I lecture in, have led ward transformation in and am passionate about. I've worked across secure, locked and open services to review restrictive practice and it's made a difference to incident rates and recovery rates consistently.

Keep being gobby, promise.

@HoofWankingSpangleCunt - full house! I spent some time with the lady to talk things through. She is going to have a meeting with the occupational therapist next week too. I personally hope she puts a complaint in.

Vaping is estimated to help 70,000 smokers to quit each year

I had no idea it was so many, Pencil, but then I'm one of those "accidental quitters" mentioned upthread ... got an ecig for spending a fortnight in an no-smoking environment with every intention of smoking again afterwards, but never touched the things again

Smoking is actually known to cause a reduction in symptoms in schizophrenia for instance, it's a massive coping strategy for a lot of services users which was arbitrarily removed by government authorities and imposed on people who have no choice but to be where they are, with no flexibility to leave or seek opportunities to smoke elsewhere. Some medications require adjustment to stop poisoning when people stop smoking or suddenly reduce.

So many people just arent aware of this. I remember our site smoking ban coming in and it sent so many patients clozaril levels haywire. One patient had to be taken off it and relapsed so badly he had to be sent up the system to medium secure where he still is now 4 years later and still very unwell.

It also took away a valuable (but controversial to those nott in the know) took for defusing incidents. Most of our guys could be talked down from pretty much anything with an offer for a quick fag outside... now all we have to offer is coffee and a bourbon biscuit 😂

@PencilsInSpace - in our smoking cessation group the most popular method is patches plus e-cig.

@doublebarrellednurse - nice explanation. The amount of incidents which would never happen if the patient could just have a cigarette!

@doublebarrellednurse - but that kind of incident is very rare on our ward at least in part to being able to use an e-cig.

It's funny because our hospital is quite 'ahead' with the use of e-cigs but until very recently service users weren't allowed their mobile phones on the ward. Trying to prise that out of someone's hand is even harder than taking the cigarettes away!

@Sammysees - thank you so much I really hope your son is on the road to recovery. One of the things I love about my job is seeing how caring and empathic the patients are to each other. I have met lots of amazing people.

@FormerlyFrikadela01 - gobby is good - it comes under the 6 cs (courage). We have only recently got phone access but still no WIFI. The things I dislike it that sometimes someone decides for example - wardrobe doors are dangerous - and then it becomes a blanket ban. The maintenance guys are sent up to go in the patient's rooms and take the doors off their wardrobes with no notice, no discussion with staff or patients and noone knows where the decision has come from to challenge it! The amount of distress this causes some patients is immense! And it is completely unecessary.

Op are you allowed to post such identifying details about your place of work, your opinion (critical) of colleagues and the behaviour and demeanour of a service user?
Just wondering as I'd be pretty furious to read all this about a family member.

@Noeuf - It is an annoymous forum and I don't believe it is identifying.

Really? No one would recognise this meeting/the set up/the situation?

Ok

Noeuf - you could say the same about almost any thread on this forum. The meeting and set up would be the same in any facility of this nature. And no personal information has been given out about a patient - just general information.

@Noeuf - I don't believe so - it is a common enough set-up. I have changed a few details too.

I smoke, real cigs. I'd never vape in a situation where I wouldn't have a real smoke. Never inside, never on public transport, never in someone's house (unless they'd said to, but even then I'm conditioned to go outside).

Vaping absolutely is not smoking, it just isn't. However I would treat it the same and be polite about it. I'd never sit in a meeting and smoke (unless it was 1988) and so I'd not vape either.

Oh wow, honestly, when I started typing, this thread had only one page! I'm not a jump-in-at-the-end-with-my-important- opinion type of poster! It's my shitty phone.

@Mschandler - fair enough. I would imagine some service users would smoke real cigarettes inside if they could! Remember many can't just nip outside for a smoke, like you! However in this situation it had been agreed that e-cigs were allowed so I don't see it as impolite to use one.

Sammy - you could but generally employees and particularly those working in health/social care aren't allowed to post about their work online. Take your chances posting about your mil or neighbour.

@Mschandler

However I would treat it the same and be polite about it. I'd never sit in a meeting and smoke (unless it was 1988) and so I'd not vape either

Well might I suggest you never need residential treatment services where you are not allowed to leave the building to smoke politely.

Or you could read the thread and understand the situation the OP is describing.

@Noeuf - we're actually encouraged to use social media. But of course confidentiality has to be maintained which I am confident I have.

@MsChnandlerBong

Oops...I won’t pile on...I see you were a victim of the thread moving on...shall we head out for a smoke together?

I can't even contribute as I've had no tea and 2 large pinots. I'll leave it to the capable and knowledgeable Pencils and fair play being so gracious StrawberryShortbread! I MUST get a new phone....