To think London house prices are unjustifiably high

[Alanis126]

I was recently visiting London, where I once lived. It was a big big struggle financially and I wasn't sorry to leave. House prices have been stratospheric for 20 plus years and while there have been some small declines in recent years, I saw a central and fairly nice but ordinary sized flat which cost £1m. There are of course many properties costing way more. There are a couple of things in particular that I don't get. Forgetting the £1m central flats, even a very ordinary property in a quiet zone 5/6 area without much in the way of social amenities was £400k plus. While some people have family money, I think it is fair to say most people start their working lives with no or negative net worth. For many the early/mid twenties will be the lowest point if their income and when they most would like to or benefit from having access to social amenities. When even rent in a grotty house share is £800 plus bills, I don't see how it becomes feasible to live while you are trying to build a career. I know there are other cities but what if you have a job in an industry only existing in London? If houses are £2m or £3m then does it matter anymore what the price is? Could they be worth £5m, £10m,£150m? And while I accept people may still choose a London lifestyle, if someone has London equity and doesn't enjoy their job, is it only fear of being priced out for good that stops them relocating and having a total change of lifestyle?

Noone at all I know now would drop kids 7.30 and pick up at 6 5 days a week! It truly is different for many areas out of London.

Couples on average London salaries would manage fine! Loads do.

On the contrary lots of people I know where both parents work do this. Lots of people outside of London have significant commutes !

I said it is truly different in many areas outside of london. That there are some people that do this in some areas doesnt contradict this?

Wherr I live now is like many many areas where most people commute less than 30mins to work, where people can arrange work times around each other and it would truly be unusual to be in childcare that long.

But plenty of people do it, just no one you know.

It isn't just in London.

You realise that loads of people in London also do the same thing though?

Grotty flat in zone 6? Plenty of nice ones with good amenities locally to be had.

Although more and more on MN i start to realise people's descriptions of places in London mean "not Highgate or Hampstead".

No, I'm aware people commute. I still have london friends from where I used to live. But there truly are whole areas and communities outside London where it truly isnt the norm to have children in childcare that long. I'm v aware of local provision and many people work their hours around a partner or even 9-5 would only have kids in childcare 8.30-5.30, which in itself would be unusual here 5 days a week.

Anyway. Not worth arguing.

Depends what you can afford on one salary? Really I think you have no idea.

I have plenty of idea.

See now you are down to the "one salary" thing? and of course London is going to be harder on one salary, in fact everywhere is harder on one salary.

Most working families have two.

And see now we are back to what compromises you are prepared to make!

enfield over ground stations to seven sisters. Southgate is piccadilly line, Enfield Lock goes to Liverpool Street and Stratford, Enfield Chase probably is the slowest line in but goes to Moorgate and FP.

But that is 1 train line into both Seven Sisters and Liverpool Street, Lovie. If the line your station is on is buggered, you're struggling to get to the other station to get on the other line which will be unaffected by the issue but overrun with the passengers off the broken line. I know because my colleague used to live in Enfield and commute to the nursery we were in in Bethnal Green on that very line. If it was down, she could be an hour late to work. She moved to a nursery in Tottenham.

There are cheaper properties for sale though, 2 bed flat with a parking space in canary wharf for £110k?

Are you sure that isn't just the parking space?

I always wonder where London nurses, binmen, cleaners, baristas, bartenders, receptionists, retail assistants etc live?

Surely they can’t afford to live centrally even if they work there. And if they commute it must be a fair way - doesn't that eat up a chunk of their cash?

I honestly don’t understand how London functions when so many industries (retail, hospitality, food etc) rely on low wage employees and there’s no way those folk could afford London property.

@Veterinari most people not on super high wages commute into central, unless they are in social housing/in properties their families bought when they were more affordable/living in huge house shares.

I worked with a colleague who lived near Oxford Circus. Couldn’t work out how she managed it as she was in a junior role and at the start of her career, turns out she lived in a huge warehouse type property with 10 other people!

maddening wow that’s unheard of, have you got a link?

A number of ways Vet.

Some are still living with their parents - in owner occupied, social housing or privately rented (perhaps not so much the latter as I think privately rented is more under 40s - I wouldn't expect that many parents of adult dc are in private rented but that is purely my impression - obviously is shortly about to change). Some do commute and yes spend a lot of their wages on it. Some are in their own social housing, or receive housing benefit to pay for private rentals. Some live in shared hmos - and depending on how many share, that can be affordable. And a pp below mentioned key worker cooperatives and shared housing - not sure how significant these are in terms of overall housing provision, but they do provide some housing for lower paid workers.

Many creative industries in particular are London centric, you can often be elsewhere but still end up with a fair bit of ‘going to London’. We live in Bath, lovely but not cheap and nor are better bits of Bristol etc. It is definitely cheaper ‘up north’ but then again it depends where, I know when we looked at Manchester , there weren’t too many areas I liked the look of much and the ones I did were pretty expensive , not much different to Bath. My son for example house shares in a town house on the Thames in docklands, he pays£700 including all bills (river facing room) his mates pay around£600 for rooms in not nearly such pleasant areas in Bristol. He combines Uni and a really decent professional part time job. He would have struggled to get such a good job in Bristol part time. I have friends who pay £1575 in an ok part of south London for a very nice two bed flat, I know people paying similar in Bristol, Bath, St Albans etc. It’s not just London that’s pricey, it’s anywhere in the south in particular where lots of people would choose to live and certain spots in the north. The biggish house we rent is no cheaper in (decent bit of Manchester) for example or the Wirral or York

No-one at all I know now would drop kids 7.30 and pick up at 6 5 days a week! It truly is different for many areas out of London.

Me neither. I know parents who are professionals like university lecturers, solicitors, teachers, IT managers. All of whom have been able to do nursery/school drop offs and/or pick ups at least 2 or 3 days a week as they have easy commutes from their 3+ bedroom semis with gardens in nice area in Liverpool.

Depends what people want though. Most people want decent schools for their kids and to be able to afford to work the hours requires kids actually see them awake for more than 2 hours a day. They want a separate bedroom from their child, and they want their child to be able to be safe in their local community when going out on their own when older. I guess if you are prepared to compromise on some of those things because you’d prefer to be near family, or because you like lots of cultural opportunities then it’s horses for courses.

Thanks @Sparklesocks

I always wonder why people bother - surely the commute eats up enormous chunks of time/money. Is it really worth it financially? I honestly don’t understand why people don’t work locally. I guess the London bonus must make it worth it

If the line you live on anywhere is down you are buggered, dearie.

How many areas outside of zone 1 have more than one line within walking distance of properties?

Essentially you are describing a problem of living in London in General.

Live at highbury and Islington and the Victoria goes down? Well the Northern line at Angel will be swamped in one direction and the other is the wrong direction. Etc Etc Etc.

Most single people under 35 I know houseshare with roommates they didn't know before they lived together. The "posher" ones managed to rent a place with people they know and only 1 or 2 at most. The others live with 5 or 6 people.

Most couples I know without kids have either studio type flat or quite a few have those live/work spaces though recently a health visitor made a pregnancy visit to my friend and was not impressed at their idea to have the baby in one for a year at least.

A few of my friends my age (late 30s-early 40s) did get on the social housing lists when it was still accessible for normal people without kids and who could work. My friend's brother got a 1 bedroom about 6 months after getting kicked out from his mum's at 18. He's still there now at about 42. He's always worked as a labourer.

A good few people around my area live in very overcrowded accommodation that they shouldn't be in (sublet for example) which makes it affordable. They work in those types of jobs.

@Vet I suppose it depends on the individual, what their job is and their salary. DP and I live in zone 5 and commute in, our travel costs aren’t exactly low but with our salaries it’s still worth it financially. But I agree I’m not sure how people on lower wage jobs manage.

@malylis

No, if you live in FP for example, you could get overground to central London/another tube station, a quicker bus ride, or the other tube line as it has Piccadilly and Victoria.

Where I live I could get that Enfield-Liverpool street line. a bus, or go to Mile End or Bethnal Green and get the Central Line. That's why my rent is higher than someone in Enfield.

From H+I, you can get a quick bus into Central London if the tube is down or get the overground to stratford.