So, how do you make the Lake District 'change and diversify' because it is too heavily weighted toward 'white middle-class able-bodied people'?

[Nanny0gg]

Richard Leafe, the Cumbria park's chief executive, said the Unesco World Heritage site must change to merit continued public funding.

I mean, it's mountains and lakes. What can you do?

And isn't that a tad patronising as well?

Even in Scotland with hills on the doorstep I think it's unusual for a lot of council estate families (of any ethnicity) to get into hill walking. It's not football. More get into fishing as a way to access the countryside ime. Scouts and Dofe are another route. There are plenty of council schemes to get dc engaged in football and other sports to a lesser extent. I've never come across any that get them cheaply into hill walking, mountain biking or canoeing/sailing, all activities easy enjoyed locally. There are clubs for some of these but most of those are almost exclusively filled with middle class dc.

I haven’t read all the thread, but I do remember visiting the Lakes about 7 years ago when I was pregnant. It was absolutely beautiful, and I loved it, but was a bit shocked to see golliwog dolls being sold in the gift shops.

I’m from a small seaside Scottish town, and live in city which has its fair share of touristy shops, but nothing like that is for sale.

I've been once to the lakes, it rained, there was nothing for me to do while it rained. Eventually I got on a boat trip just to get out of the rain for a while.
If an advert for the lakes had bame in it and that helped bame to feel like they could in fact visit then I see no problem with that, or indeed any excess cost in doing so.
So who do we tell this to? Anyone have an email. I'm more than happy to send emails on such subjects. Seeing as I am an immigrant too. Albeit white.
I had no idea about the area having private land and such, so I didnt realise that signposts would not be much help.

I've never come across any that get them cheaply into hill walking, mountain biking or canoeing/sailing, all activities easy enjoyed locally

My council does, both itself via bike hire schemes, and via Clyde Muirshiel Regional Park (we're one of the three councils that fund it). Of course being a regional, rather than national, park they tend to concentrate more on the locals, tourists all head for Loch Lomond or the Cowal Peninsular anyway. The park also offers disability scooter hire, and disabled access to water sports, plus there are various walking groups for all fitness levels some of which are accessed via health services.

All school children are offered outdoor activity trips at the top end of primary school as well, which are heavily subsidised for the poorest.

I'm not sure national parks are actually best placed to offer such schemes.

I think it would be good to improve facilities in the Lake District such as more toilets.

Walking for pleasure (especially uphill and in the rain) is just something that lots of people (of any background) aren't interested in doing, and that's pretty much the whole point of going to the Lake District. Advertising and brochures should of course be inclusive of different races and minority groups, as all advertising should be. But that's not going to persuade people who aren't attracted to that kind of destination.

Our local schools also do the few days outward bound type trips for p6/7 but I've not seen any difference in this resulting in hill walking in the lower working class families. DC went to a very mixed demographic primary. I don't see any of the DC not from the middle class estate doing this type of holiday going by the social media activity and who we see at clubs and similar. Plenty of dc doing well in football, basketball and judo type stuff though so not saying they are sitting on their arses not getting involved.

@Youseethethingis

But really, must everywhere be “diversified” to the point where it’s all the bloody same? Why can’t the Lakes just be what they are? I happen to think that what they are is wonderful. Anyone who disagrees is under no obligation to go there 🤷‍♀️

I’m not sure what “diversified” actually means to you, but I’m fairly certain is doesn’t mean changing things “to the point where it’s all the bloody same” as you put it.

Your statement reminds me of the cringe worthy attitude of people who think that ‘equal opportunities’ means ‘treating everyone the same’

Surely we all want to work towards a situation where a more diverse group of people can access these wonderful places?

As a kid my Dad used to regularly use this quote: “The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members.”

I used to wonder why he was pointing out the bleeding obvious. But the comments you’ve made remind me exactly why.

A friend of mine has a severe form of arthrogryposis. He has to use an electric wheelchair. He’s trying to think of ways to get out and enjoy nature more. He’d love to go to the Lakes.

I’ll be sure to let him know that you, in all your fucking selfless wisdom, have decided that you like the Lakes exactly as they are... and that if he doesn’t, then he’s under no obligation to go.

As mind blowingly incomprehensible as it may seem to you, he wants to go to the Lakes as much as you do. It’s just he has to use a wheelchair to get about.

What you’ve said rubs salt into the wound, so to speak.

Not only is the location currently inaccessible to him, but now he has to put up with you/ the section of society you represent, smugly pronouncing that people like him are under no obligation to go!

He’s well aware that no matter how hard you try to accommodate him, there won’t be perfect access for everyone and he’s acutely aware that despite your best efforts, he’ll never be able to take part in many outdoor activities that most other people can. We all know that his disability shouldn’t impinge on your sacred right to enjoy the things you do- we all know it isn’t your fault he was born that way. And I suspect he wouldn’t want you to bulldoze over the Lakes just because he can’t access it.

We all know life isn’t fair.

But have some respect. There’s no valid reason to make it any more unfair than it already is. There is simply no need to ‘take the mickey’ out of people’s hopes for change and progress.

Imagine a person who can’t afford to buy their kid a birthday gift. Would you say to them: “I love Birthday presents and I have loads of money. I buy my kids the best gifts money can buy. But don’t worry, mate... you’re under no obligation to buy your child a present.”

My friend was born with his severe form of arthrogryposis. He has never tried to ruin other people’s experience of life... but you seem quite happy to reject and ridicule the notion of making these experiences (that you enjoy so much) more accessible to him.

Blowing out someone else’s candle does not make yours shine any brighter. It just makes you look like a bully without any substance or self esteem.

I don’t own the Lakes. You don’t own the Lakes. The way in which the Lakes are maintained and the way in which we (as a society) attempt to make them accessible to a diverse range of people, speaks volumes about the kind of society we are.

And what’s with the sarcastic suggestion of ‘banning white people’?

Since when did an invitation to people (from other cultures, races etc) have to be re-branded as ‘the exclusion/ banning of white people’?

Are you incapable of going somewhere unless everyone in attendance is white?

I suspect that’s not the case, because as you say, you were just “mickey taking”. Which begs the question:

What were you hoping to achieve by this mickey taking? What point was your bizarre comment meant to convey?

What worth is there in your sarcasm?

What indeed, is the point in anything you’ve said, other than to express your ignorance? Or to show case how smugly self absorbed and unkind you are?

I challenge your attitude because I care about the people whose lives are affected by your attitude.

Only weak and insecure people feel the need to re-brand compassion as pathetic or unnecessary.

I hope you get the help you need and I hope you never find yourself in need of the compassion you mindlessly withhold from others.

Not least because compassion takes courage and intellect. Something you clearly need to work on.

All you can do is introduce people to these things WaxOnFeckOff, you can't force people to take up activities if they don't want to.

I'm not sure hill walking is ever going to be that popular, peat bogs and knee deep heather are an acquired taste, but there's plenty of mountain bikers from council estates, and fishing as you've mentioned is popular. Round here there's a lot of lads up the hills on scramblers/quad bikes too but I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be permitted in a national park.

That's sort of what I was saying, it's not necessarily lack of access or opportunity or lazyness, it's just not what people want to do if it's not what their family already does. Council target resources to activities where they know there will be take up and are essentially reaching more people for the least cost. Outdoors are free but need higher levels of supervision.

So, you could do everything to encourage people and they probably still won't be interested.

The idea of "representation" never even crossed anyone's minds years ago.

Whoopi Goldberg was 9 and remembers her shock at seeing Lieutenant Uhura on Star Trek as she'd never seen a black actress play anything other than a maid on film and TV.
Martin Luther King apparently allowed his kids to watch Star Trek (but not other stuff on tv) because Nichelle Nichols was seen as such an inspiration.
While there would have been another black actress cast in a role with importance without Star Trek, Nichols' casting was a massive deal.

I sense a lot of gatekeeping on this thread. Of course, wet weekends hillwalking and damp tents aren't for everyone. But it is important for children and people to be able to access nature and see it for themselves.

How many people in inner cities and BAME people don't go out in the country because they haven't had ANY acquaintance with it?
Also, nature starvation is a real thing but how do you know you have it until you get out there? And won't a greater contact with nature make you appreciate your environment more -whether it be within nature parks or your own back yard?

And no, I don't think my desire for nature and solitude threatened by more BAME people going into the countryside or by there being more disabled access. No-one is planning on installing stair-lifts up a mountain!

JohnMcCainsDeathStare I agree with you about nature starvation.

What in your opinion is the reason BAME people in inner cities need more encouragement than white people in inner cities, since both are being starved of nature?

I don't know what would attract more working classes or ethnic minorities to the Lakes. We spent two holidays in Dorset this year which obviously has similar areas of natural beauty, but there were lots of foreign tourists especially somewhere like Durdle Door where I'd say foreign tourists outnumbered British. Perhaps the proximity of London to Dorset, good road links and lots of affordable places to stay.

foreign tourists especially somewhere like Durdle Door where I'd say foreign tourists outnumbered British. Perhaps the proximity of London to Dorset, good road links and lots of affordable places to stay.

Dorset is full of foreign tourists and also British Asian families out on the beach having picnics. Extremely racially diverse destination.

In addition to all the reasons given, it could just be that they simply prefer the warmth and sitting on beaches to the rain of the Lakes and hiking. Not everyone likes camping, hiking, the rain, hills, more rain, the scenery, outdoors lifestyle. Some people just like the sun, a picnic blanket, home cooked food, and the chance for a family gathering on the beach. And good luck to them all.

From Trevor Philips:

*Yet, once again, the anxious rhetoric feeds into the theme of ethnic-minority victimhood, with the implication that, like children, we people of colour have to be guided by the benevolent hand of the state.

I myself adore the Lake District and have tried to pass that on to others. When I was head of the Commission for Racial Equality I organised summer camps to Cumbria to give kids the chance to mix with others of different backgrounds and to see an England they would never discover otherwise. Many said it changed their lives*

I think it is poor that Brockhole, the Lake District visitor centre, doesn't have a changing places toilet.

There is absolutely no difference @Devereux1

Although now we hear about public schools refusing to accept the gift of scholarships for disadvantaged working class white boys-a group that is hugely disadvantaged.

It is this type of thinking that turns SOME white deeply disadvantaged people towards he far right and anyone who sneers at that has never ever lived in those areas and has no idea how many feel cast aside, while every group but them has someone yelling for them.

Now, they cannot even complain without some wanker coming along and telling them to check their white privilege!

This latest shite about the Lake District is more of the same and it will eventually lead to trouble-you cannot keep shitting on/ignoring/patronising the severely disadvantaged white; unpopular though it may be to say it- as even the past head of the Equal Opportunities Commission has pointed out.

No fucker is keeping any other fucker out of the lakes and if you're disabled or fat-of whatever colour-well, in breaking news-you can't climb a hill.

Devereux1 yes, I agree, my own family is mixed, my DH is black African, so we didn't out of place, as it were, in Dorset. Also agree that beaches are more popular with ethnic minority families and church groups as appeals more to the children, lots of beaches have good rail links for day trips. My last experience of the Lakes, many years ago, and I'm white and nature loving, is that while it's very pretty, when it's misty and wet, well I found it a bit boring after a day or two I know it's very expensive and accomodation needs to be booked well in advance.

@Underhisi

I’d avoid Brockhole full stop. I noticed lots of health and safety problems when I was there last. I certainly won’t be taking DD there.

Try Fell Foot or Grizedale, depending on what you want to do.

"Lots of health and safety problems!"

Is everywhere to be made into a sanitised theme park...a "countryside experience centre!

For Fuck's Sake!

It's also poorer people who seem to face barriers in going to the Lakes. The discussion is focused on the fact that it is white middle class people who tend to go. So there is white privilege and also middle class privilege as well.

@paulinespeaksmanylanguages

Brockhole is a children’s activity centre. Zip wires, boat hire etc.

You knew that, right?

Brockhole is the National Park's visitor centre so if the idea is they want to encourage a greater range of people to come to the area, they could start by sorting their own centre out.
We don't do any of the activities there because they are not geared up for children like my son.

Have you seen the state of Loch Lomond?