So, how do you make the Lake District 'change and diversify' because it is too heavily weighted toward 'white middle-class able-bodied people'?

[Nanny0gg]

Richard Leafe, the Cumbria park's chief executive, said the Unesco World Heritage site must change to merit continued public funding.

I mean, it's mountains and lakes. What can you do?

And isn't that a tad patronising as well?

Workers in the hospitality industry lean toward Eastern block as they have slowly replaced the original white local workers who seem to have surrendered those jobs or saw them as unwanted/beneath them

The children of those living in such areas go to Uni, get their degrees, and stay in the big cities because that's where the good jobs are. They're hardly likely to return home to serve in restaurants and clean hotel rooms are they? That's why rural communities are dying - there's nothing for the kids to come back home for - no decent jobs as they've all been centralised in London and a few other large cities. That leads to shops, schools and even GP surgeries closing due to lack of locals living there.

I didn't suggest that an area that is predominantly white = an area with a lot of racist people. As I mentioned, we have enjoyed wonderful holidays in Scotland and remote areas in Wales where we didn't see a single non-white person at all.

I can only give my first hand experiences of the racism we have faced and explain that this is why some Black families do not wish to visit the countryside. I don't know why so many people in this country have difficulty accepting that racism is real and not figment of the imagination. Thank you to those who understand.

Xenia seems to have started on the wine a bit early today.

Have the target groups for widening this diversity been clearly identified, beyond the big badges of ethnicity, culture and ability? Surely that’s the starting point, then ask the groups what are the biggest barriers to visiting?
We can all conclude what we think they might be, indeed some conclusions might be spot on, but the answers need to be clear, so that issues can be tackled to maximise any resources thrown at them. Otherwise, it’s just another paper exercise.

I asked this yesterday but @Devereux1 - how much money is granted to the National Parks from our tax?

I have read lots of statements along the lines of "accommodation should be better/cheaper" - which is up to private individuals to resolve

Others saying "paths should be better, signs should be better" - is this for National Parks funding to cover? What about where trails cross privately owned land?

Lots of "this should.." and "that should..." without any thought to who actually would DO this and more importantly who would PAY for it.
Because you can bet any further investment in the Lakes will only push prices up even further.

Devereux numerous posters, and posted links, have pointed to factors that make black Britons feel unwelcome or feel that they might be unwelcome.

Even one image somewhere if a black family walking or rowing in a lake might give the idea that yes, black people fell walk and hire rowing boats so there is no need to gawp. Or give a black child the encouragement that it isn’t just people who don’t look like them who stand on summits.

This is accepted in every form of marketing where a profit-making company wants to attract customers.

Funny how there is such resistance when looking at sharing a publicly owned, publicly funded national resource more widely.

No one has suggested that all while people living in these areas are racist. However I don't know how a white person can say there is little racism when they don't experience it. It is like men dismissing sexism.

Xenia seems to have started on the wine a bit early today

Eastie I think you are right. Xenia: have a coffee and some sleep or you will never make it through the change of decade

Others saying "paths should be better, signs should be better" - is this for National Parks funding to cover? What about where trails cross privately owned land?

This is the crux of the matter.

The LD National Park are welcome to build all the visitor centres and footpaths that they want on their own land but the vast majority of footpaths in the Lakes cross privately owned land (not just farmers but large estates as well as companies like united utilities).

It's a 'natural' landscape and is still a rural industrial environment, not a government run theme park.

BlouseAndSkirt
Even one image somewhere if a black family walking or rowing in a lake might give the idea that yes, black people fell walk and hire rowing boats

Why? Because without a poster of a person of the same race as them, this idea of going to the Lakes would never have occurred to the entire black population of the UK?

Look, no-one stops anyone from going. The Lake District isn't full of Klu Klux Klan is it?

Go if you want to and if you don't want to, then do something else.

BAMEs don't need the state to step in and gently help them to go to the Lake District. It's a load of bollocks and doesn't help anyone.

Shit like this is a gift to anyone who wants to say that measures to help real racism are just nonsense because they can point to Mr Leafe and this woke stupidity as an example.

So why do companies who stand to make a profit adopt this approach? How does it disadvantage anyone to just be a bit more representative of our population as a whole in marketing material?

Why disregard the lived experience of many posters on this thread?

BlouseAndSkirt
So why do companies who stand to make a profit adopt this approach?

Having sat in these very meetings, I can tell you precisely why: because of threats. They don't do it for profit, because it makes no difference. They don't do it for great marketing because it makes no difference.

If it wasn't because of threats, inside and out, none of them would do it because your assumption is fundamentally wrong.

They don't go to the Lakes because it doesn't interest them. Not because of anything else. And you know what, they're allowed to not be interested too. Leave them alone, leave the people who enjoy the Lakes alone, stop trying to socially engineer everyone to meet some screwed up quota.

Cultural signals are both strong and subtle. Powerful and unconscious.

An area like the Lakes carries strong links to a sense of ‘Englishness’. Specifically English. The English Lake District. Wordsworth. Coleridge. Gingerbread. Bucolic scenes with sheep. Beatrix Potter.

All this is great, a sense of place and history, and exactly what overseas visitors want to come and look at.

Studies have found that many Black British families identify as British and feel ‘other’ in relationship to
‘English’. (And it is the EDL, not the BDL....).

No one is suggesting that Dove Cottage is demolished or the sheep (to reference another PC horn mad myth) be replaced by all-black flocks. But does it take such a leap of imagination to think that signalling that everyone is equally welcome, in the face of non-representation and stories of outright racism, might be worth considering?

Well actually Deveresux I have HEARD black people say these things. Did you not hear Black Men Walking on R4?

MY KIDS comment on the complete lack of representation OF THEM in terms of marketing, Uni brochures, tourist attractions etc etc.

And who is them?

Some of us are taking about US.

Trying to be polite and objective.

I agree it feels very English. I'm a Scot and Brit, but struggle to see why it feeling English should be a problem to anyone. I'd expect Spain to feel Spanish, Turkey to feel Turkish. Why shouldn't it embrace its Englishness?

I'd also add that we go to the lakes a lot, I'm not a keen hillwalker but I love the beauty, boating on the lakes, the dc like gokarting and other activities, we all like gentle walks, DH likes more extreme walks. I love wandering round the towns, shopping in Booths supermarkets, eating out etc. You don't need to be completely outdoorsy. My only issue is that in poor weather, there isn't a big variety of stuff to do that isn't expensive, especially for teenagers, but that's supply and demand and private enterprise rather than an issue for the national parks. I can always vote with my feet or just get the board games out :)

Wax: read my post again.

It’s Englishness is its strength, of course, but can you really not see why some people who have felt alienated from being allowed to adopt an ‘English’ identity, might not even subconsciously feel that the very strength and identity that is marketed as its attraction might be less than welcoming to them?

Along with reported experiences of actual exclusion?

When I visit a Catalan or Basque historical attraction as an overseas visitor I am way outside the politics and nuances of Spanish regional frictions. It has no currency for me. But Spanish visitors will conceivably react differently. For example.

Discrimination in this country goes a lot deeper than the National Parks. Not helped at times by the simple fact that our population tends to be clustered where different cultures and backgrounds feel safe and welcomed. Actively encouraged by our National and Local Governments. It takes a big leap of faith and trust to live and work outside your perceived safety zone. The penalties for discrimination need to be much more severe, and educating to prevent them needs to start with parents, be outside the tick box curriculum of our education system and be firmly upheld in all aspects of the workplace. Will take generations rather than years.

It's amazing how many people on here sound just like men when women discuss sexism and how to bring about change. There is little listening to people by some people on here.

BlouseAndSkirt
MY KIDS comment on the complete lack of representation OF THEM in terms of marketing, Uni brochures, tourist attractions etc etc.

Of course they do. They've been trained to notice such things. The idea of "representation" never even crossed anyone's minds years ago. It wasn't an issue. Nobody ever thought "Hmm, now I can't see someone the same race as me, so that means I can't go to this shop/university/Lake District". Yet, miraculously, black people still managed to go to shops, go to university, and even go to the damn Lake District.

You do realise that self-reported claims of alienation doesn't mean that people are alienated. If any sector of society wants to play the victim, of course they'll churn out the usual woke mantras, whether they actually feel it or not.

I wasn't disagreeing with you blouse. I just wanted to add my experience as a non English person who also doesn't have that identity. I'm not suggesting that people might not be comfortable with that or that Scots face the same discrimination issues that ethnic minorities or those with disabilities might face. I also think there is a certain amount of looking down the nose at the working/benefit class in places too.

I'd hope that people who would like to visit would feel comfortable and included but accept that it isn't for everyone. There are lots of places that people love that I have interest in visiting. I think it's a shame if people from inner cities don't feel comfortable getting into the countryside but it doesn't have to be the lake district. I think hills and mountains have a similar psychological effect that open water and the sea does in promoting feelings of well being.

Wax: oh, I see. 👍🏼

Devereaux: Thank you for explaining my experience to me.

LOL. I grew up in rural Norfolk. I take my kids to the Lakes. I live in S London.

And if my kids have been ‘trained’ to notice things (people gawping at them /calling them cocoa-face on a campsite ) etc etc what has everyone else been ‘trained’ to think?

I still think it’s a cost thing. In my city based ramblers group there are plenty of BAME people. Some mixed (like me) and some newly arrived. The key thing is that they are all in jobs that will pay average wage or more, though.

Also image. Hiking is seen as a middle class thing to do. I don’t know why, as it’s not Polo or yachting. It’s the cost of getting to the Lakes and Peaks on unreliable but expensive Northern Rail.